AOL

[mkarlinm]

Help!. Our B&G is in a copy of weeks and we are crossing over a scout who is ready for scouts. He is only a W1 but way to advance and the leaders think he would thrive in BS and CS is holding him back. The promblem is tjis scouts mother is pushing for the arrow of light. As a CM along with the dl and adl we do not think this scout is worthy. He was awarded the acitivy badges he needs and worked and visited a troop but could not be bothered in going on a troop outing or a webelos hike when planned. Once I told her this she went on an outing with the troop and said she would make some Webelos take a hike with her son on our next Pack Camping trip. I brought to the CC attention and was told by the committee that if he does the last few things that is required I should award it. I do not want to sign off on it and I know the leaders will not . What is your advice?

[GKlose]

My advice is something you probably don't want to hear. I've been in a similar position where my older son transitioned to a scout troop last year. His younger brother, of W1 age, but with a 10th birthday just a few days after 4th grade started, is mentally done with Cub Scouts. He doesn't enjoy it any more.

 

It took a lot of extra work on his part -- he did 1st and 2nd year Webelos activities, not only with his den of 4th-graders, but also with the older den as well. At this point, he has finished everything for AoL, and will receive it next month at the pack's Blue and Gold Banquet (this pack uses the banquet as an end-of-year awards banquet).

 

Going all the way back to Tiger Cubs, it isn't always about pass/fail requirements. It is about putting Cubs into a position to achieve. Sometimes, yes, this means parents do hand-hold their Cubs marching them from activity to activity, so their Cubs can earn a badge. The situation you're describing sounds like many other cases I've seen.

 

My advice? It is up to the Den Leader, and if there are issues, the DL should be talking with the parent. A boy has one shot to earn Arrow of Light, and I think they should be figuring out a way to make it happen. If the boy is anxious to move on to a Scout troop, all the better. It is far more important to retain him in the overall program than it to have a pack committee, CM and DL all deciding whether or not a Cub is worthy of being awarded the Arrow of Light after having finished all of its steps.

 

Guy(This message has been edited by GKlose)

[scouter1960]

 

He either has met the requirements or he has not....right? At the Webloes level the DL is the one that signs off. It would seem to me that the Webloes leader should be able to say he has earned it or not. Or maybe I am missing something in the post.

[Hal_Crawford]

I'm confused, the boy is a Webelo 1, meaning he is fourth grade, right? He is too advanced for Webelos and the leaders (by this I presume pack leaders) think he would strive in Boy Scouts but those same leaders do not feel he has earned AOL? First thing that you as CM needs to do is read the requirements to join Boy Scouts.

 

"Meet age requirements. Be a boy who is 11 years old, or one who has completed the fifth grade or earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but is not yet 18 years old".

 

If he is a Webelos 1 he is probably not 11, he may not even be 10 and he has probably not completed fifth grade. Without AOL he will not be qualified to join a troop, even with it he may not meet the requirements. If he doesn't meet the above requirements he is not going to be able to join a troop.

 

If he is 10 but hasn't earned AOL don't give it to him until he has. It would a bad start to his BS career for boy and mom to think that he can get signed off on requirements he doesn't feel like doing. That wouldn't be doing a favor to the boy or his Scoutmaster.

 

I have a hunch I know the rest of the story. Pushy mother and/or a son who is a problem because he is too big, too precocious or won't behave. If he was really ready he wouldn't have any problems meeting the AOL requirements. Cross him over and a make mom and boy someone else's problem. Am I right?

 

If a troop takes him without him meeting the joining requirements the council will probably reject the application leaving boy out in the cold... no favor there.

 

The only other circumstance I could see is if he is a special needs scout who actually meets the age requirements but is still a Webelos 1 but I somehow think you would have mentioned that.

 

Good luck dealing with mom but stick to your guns even if it means the boy has to wait; you will be doing what is best for him.

 

Hal

 

 

[Stosh]

Did the boy miss the troop and hike activities because he didn't want to go, or because his parents didn't allow him, or parents were too busy to take him, or ?????

 

A lot of dynamics here. There's nothing wrong with multiple hikes over different times so all the boys can meet the requirement because of scheduling conflicts. Same for the Boy Scout activities. There's a lot of opportunities that get missed because of conflicts with home, school and church. When I did the WDL bit, I offered the same activities at least twice if not three times so all the boys could have an opportunity. To say there's only one activity and if you can't make it too bad, you miss out on AOL, then there's something wrong with the Webelos program, not the boy. Ok, one boy needs a hike... Why can't all the boys get a chance to go out and have a second, third or forth hike just for fun? This teamwork dynamic means the boys get more fun activities along the way! What's wrong with that? Too often we think in terms of accomplishing rank advancement rather than opportunities for fun. Boys don't think that way unless adults teach them. This is why adults earn the Eagle rank more often than the boys do. Same applies for AOL.

 

Stosh

[ScoutNut]

I think that there could be another problem here.

 

How old will this boy boy be in a few weeks when your B&G rolls around?

 

If he has not been a Webelos for 6 months since becoming 10 years old, it does not matter if he has completed all of the other AOL requirements, he can NOT earn AOL.

 

If he will not be 11 years old at B&G, then he can NOT cross to boy Scouts without having earned his AOL.

 

It sounds like the mother wants the "Boy Scout-oriented outdoor activity" requirement to be done AFTER the boy is already a Boy Scout? That is not possible.

 

There is a very good chance this boy will not be crossing to Boy Scouting just yet.

 

 

[ElyriaLeader]

A couple things are missing from the original post, the boys age, his grade. Is this pack outing going to be prior to the B&G? Is the mother a registered leader "that is going to make some other Webelos hike with her son" that statement gives me a really bad taste in my mouth. Here's the litmus test -

The scout must be active in the den for 6 months since completing the 4th grade OR, The scout must be active in the den for 6 months after his 10th birthday, if he does not meet one OR the other of these requirements then no matter what other requirements he has accomplished he is NOT eligable, end of story.

[mkarlinm]

Thank you for everyones input. Since my post the scout has went on a boyscout outing and will be going on a Webelos hike this weekend. He turned 10 in June so he has been a Webelos for 6 months. I am always telling the families that cub scouts is a family program so if his mom did lead him to all of these badgesI have to look at myself since I also help my son along his path.(he is not ready to crossoveer)

Once again thanks.

[mkarlinm]

Thank you for everyones input. Since my post the scout has went on a boyscout outing and will be going on a Webelos hike this weekend. He turned 10 in June so he has been a Webelos for 6 months. I am always telling the families that cub scouts is a family program so if his mom did lead him to all of these badgesI have to look at myself since I also help my son along his path.(he is not ready to crossoveer)

Once again thanks.

[moxieman]

Hal_Crawford wrote: "Meet age requirements. Be a boy who is 11 years old, or one who has completed the fifth grade or earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but is not yet 18 years old"

 

I don't know what edition of the handbook you quoted this out of. Here is what is in mine (11th Ed, Third Printing, Page 4):

 

"Meet age requirements.

Be a boy who has completed the fifth grade or is 11 years old, or has earned the Arrow of Light Award but is under 18 years old."

 

No where in there is a minimum age if one has earned AOL.

 

Now, here's the problem we're facing in our district. There's a nine year old who is about to receive the AOL in his pack. Whether or not his pack had done things properly, they're about to have a nine year old with AOL.

 

The way the BS Handbook is worded, this means that at nine years old, he could join a troop and his parents could point to page 4 and argue that their boy can't be denied being able to join at 9 'cause he has the AOL.

 

Most around here are not happy with this and are awaiting a ruling from Council on this one.

 

[Lisabob]

moxie, I think this was a fairly recent change. There is now a minimum age requirement, regardless of AoL status. And I, for one, am glad. One parent I know had her son skipped ahead 2 or 3 grades in school. She skipped him in cub ranks too "so that he can be with his classmates." And then she crammed in the entire 18 months of Webelos programming into about 6 months of super-concentrated effort. Well and good, but at 8 years old, he was in no way ready for the demands of boy scouting - physically or emotionally.

 

You can see the current joining requirements here:

http://www.usscouts.org/advance/boyscout/bsrank1.asp

[CMPA]

I just looked at scouting.org and the requirements for joining Boy Scouts are:

 

Boy Scouting, one of the traditional membership divisions of the BSA, is available to boys who have earned the Arrow of Light Award and are at least 10 years old or have completed the fifth grade and are at least 10, or who are 11, but not yet 18 years old.

 

That is right from national's website so 9 is not old enough no matter how you look at it.

 

Besides I don't see how a 9 year old could get the AOL. You have to be active in your Webelos den for 6 months since completing 4 grade( or turning 10). At 9 he should be in 3rd or 4th grade depending on when his birthday is.

[moxieman]

Thank you for the pointer to the national site that corrects the handbook. I'll point that out to the Key Three to help'em out in this 'fun' situation.

 

[ScoutNut]

All they need to do is pick up a current Youth Application at the Council Scout Shop.

 

"Your son can be a Scout if he has completed the fifth grade and is at least 10 years old or is age 11 or has earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but has not reached age 18."

 

I believe there was a short time frame when the age with AOL was 10.5. It was then changed to 10 and has been that way for a good number of years now.