Siblings on Outings

[eisely]

This thread is inspired by the thread about adults on outings. How many people out there have been involved in outings where siblings were present, with or without permission of the unit leadership/committee? What problems arose? How were problems handled? Has anybody encountered problems with legal liabilities involving siblings?

[Mike Long]

Yep, I've allowed them and had no problems. I haven't had anyone just show up before though. If they did they would most likely be turned away for simply being rude trip crashers.

 

But first all are told the ground rules.

 

1. Youth protection applies to guests.

 

2. All Boy Scout activities are just that, Boy Scout activities. They are executed for the sole benefit of the active registered Scouts in our troop. All decisions will be made to that end.

 

3. Non-Scouts must be in the presence of their parent or legal guardian ONLY. No mom's boyfriend or good buddies allowed.

 

4. Parents or legal guardians are solely liable for the conduct and safety of their child.

 

5. Sibling participation is dependent on availability. If we have room for 20 and only 19 commit then that 1 slot can be filled by a sibling.

 

6. If this is an activity that scouts need to qualify for in order to attend then siblings may not attend. After all, why join scouts if you can just hop on a trip that the other guys have to work for?

 

7. All guests eat and camp with the adult patrol.

 

8. I never had to enforce this but if any non-scout causes problems that person is outta here immediately and don't ask to come again.

[Bob White]

Ditto the ground rules that Mike Long uses.

 

Bob White

[Mike Long]

Just a thought that occured to me.

 

These siblings are 98% of the time little brothers of scouts. Little brothers, I might add, that most likely will eventually be members of your troop.

 

Why would a troop make them feel unwelcome? As long as there is an understanding between your leadership and the parents why not get to know them, show them what fun scouting is, get them excited about your troop/Scouting and turn them loose to go and get their friends/den mates excited about your troop/scouting too?

[eisely]

Your point is well taken Mike. Actually the two incidents I have in mind in the fairly distant past involve younger sisters on outings, one a canoe expedition and the other rock climbing. Nobody was hurt in either case, but there were safety issues that came up. As long as everybody follows rules such as you describe there should be no problem, but I am still interested if anybody has any other stories to tell.

[evmori]

Double ditto to Mike's post!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[acco40]

The only problem I've seen is not the little sisters but the big sisters! We had a few families show up, invited, the evening before the last day of summer camp to see their first year son (11 yr olds). One of the boys had an older (15 - 16?) sister and boy did it disrupt our senior patrol. She and the boys were very well behaved but the boys followed her around like lost puppies! I was humerous to see and I guess a wake up call to me, a parent of a soon to be 12 yr old scout, 10 yr Webelos scout and 7 yr old girl scout.

 

Usually, within our 12 campouts per year we designate two or three that we empahsize family. As for siblings who may be potential new members, the only problem when my younger outgoing, gregarious and fun loving (scene stealing ham?) Webelos scout attends a boy scout function (something I do not encourage but allow on a limited basis) is with his older quiet and reserved brother. The younger one is a great big hit with all of the other adults and boys, much to the chagrin of his older brother. I like to remind the younger one that his turn will come soon, but he will have to wait just like his older brother.

[ScoutPerson]

We have, usually every year sometime every two years, a family campout that allows family members to attend. We follow the guidelines of BSA etc. and what Mike Long suggests. We do NOT allow siblings because they detract from the program unless theyre eligible to join scouting; if they are then they can go on one trip and then they must join in which case they are covered under BSA policy and insurance during their test trip.

 

Ive never had a problem with a sibling of scouting age, other than the usually stuff which is with all scouts. But, I have had times when a little brother or sister wants to go, like during our canoe trip, and frankly theyre not capable of doing it. Its hard to tell a little brother they cannot go, but we have a cub pack for them, especially since theyll be joining the troop in the future its difficult to turn them away. But, just like you cannot drive until your sixteenth birthday, somethings you just have to wait for things.

 

Just the way we do it, and my 2 cents.

 

[sctmom]

I only have one child. Cub Scouting is a family adventure but still I saw cases of younger sisters stealing the show and getting more attention than the boys. I am the youngest of 3 children. My brother is 4 years old and my sister 5 years older than me. My parents never made a big to do over it but we all had our own "things" growing up.

 

I knew I was not going to be treated the same as someone 5 years older than me, so don't ask! When my sister was in high school, my mother was one of the lunchroom ladies in our small school. My sister and some other girls helped in the lunchroom as a sort of home-ec class (it got them out of P.E.). I remember staying at home the night they had a Christmas party for those girls. It never dawned on me to go, even though my mother and sister were going. It wasn't about ME! I wasn't part of their group.

 

Even though most of the time the 3 of us played together (we lived in the country) we knew when to go separate ways.

 

I also remember the family in town who had 2 "late in life" girls very close in age. When one got birthday presents so did the other one. So they each got 2 birthdays each year. Not sure how they turned out as adults but it always seemed strange.

 

I think the parents need to be responsible for siblings they bring along and use good common sense about which siblings they bring. Also, the parents need to know when to step in and pull the non-scouts away. I think if I had just HAD to go on a Boy Scout trip with another child, I would go out of my way to plan activities for that child (and any other tagalongs) away from the scouts.

 

The one sibling I've seen on Boy Scout trips is a younger brother in a 100% scouting family. He is a new Webelos scout. He is expected to show Scout behavior but not allowed to do things like the axe yard and other "scout only" activities. He doesn't tag along with his brother and he doesn't up-stage him. He and his family seem to be the exception that we all wish was the rule.

 

[akela]

Lucky for me I am the Mom of two very active scouts. The older 11 JAR (going on 16) is in the BSa trrop and the other, my 8 year old JKR is a wolf this year. There have been times in our troop that had I not gone on the scout outing, they would have not been able to go. Our SM has a webelo that will join the troop in Feb 03, he has gone on several outings as his two older brothers are BSA. But thoes two older brothers strongly object when he does go.

 

In our case, i always as JAR is he minds if JKR goes with us on the campout, day out or whatever. I would never take JKR on an outing that was longer than a weekend. No summer camp.

 

It seems to work okay for our Troop. I think you have to look at the pros and cons of each situation. Our trrop is volunteer needed. So some times, even if we did not want to take sibilings, we have to to be able to go on our outings so that the older boys can make progress. When they are told that siblings are attending due to the volunteer situation they don't seem to mind. But we always adivse of SPL of the situation and then he brings the information before the troop.

 

We have two younger boys (wolf) that attend our troop meetings on occasion and last week the boys were playing a game and asked them to play with them, you should have seen their little faces, they asked permission from the SPL and their Parents( leaders) and went for the gusto, and they had a great time and good fellowhip with the older boys. It was a win win situation for both parties, the older boys needed another player, so they teamed up the little boys as one player and the game went on.

 

 

Supermom

[ScoutPerson]

I think Supermom hits the nail on the head. It seems to be a matter of adult leadership and if you need someone you take anyone even if they take the sibling. Youre better off providing scouting with siblings instead of no scouting. In our troop we can take 30 kids before we need to have more than two adults. It seems others need many adults to drive therefore anyone willing to go is appreciated. In the age of the minivan, it probably turns into 1 adult to 7 kids as thats what a minivan seats.