not mature enough to crossover?

[Scouter&mom]

If boys have completed their AoL they are welcome to go ahead and move to the troop. We currently have 4 boys coming from one pack who will cross over next week. We also have several boys that are going to be moving into our troop from the CS pack sponsored by the same CO as our troop and who actually meet at the same time, just in another building of the church. Those boys who have just joined Scouts this year will not have their AoL, but will begin meeting with the troop mid-March (just will need their parents to go camping with them) until they complete fifth grade and can "officially" become Boy Scouts. That gives them time to bond with the boys in the troop and be comfortable with them before we go to summer camp in early June. This has worked for us for several years, and yes we still occassionally get a boy who wasn't ready for Boy Scouts and summer camp. Having the younger boys (and parents) join in activities earlier, also helps parents feel more comfortable with the boys going with our leadership.

[ScoutNut]

Bearshark, Have all the Webelos in the the den already committed to your Troop? Are there other Troops in the area? Is the Pack & den planning on crossing all of the Webelos out of the Pack in March, no matter what?

 

Your Troop has put you, as Webelos to Scout Liaison ASM, and your son, as Webelos Den Chief, in a rather bad position. If this is true, it sounds like the Troop wants you & your son to be the fall guys to tell the den they can not become Boy Scouts (at least with your Troop) until the end of May.

 

Before you go off the deep end here on 2nd hand, said something to the fact, information, put your personal issues with your CC aside, and have a friendly chat with him & the SM together, and find out EXACTLY is going on. If in fact, they do not want the Webelos in March when they plan to cross over, you need to explain to them both that the Troop will probably loose these new Scouts.

 

If they will not change, there is not a whole lot you can do. Personally, if my son was the Den Chief, I would encourage him, to encourage his den and it's leader, to look at more Troops NOW.

 

[IM_Kathy]

I haven't read all the posts in this thread yet, but just wanted to share my thoughts...

 

my sons pack did cross over in April, it didn't give him much of a chance to get to know the boys in the troop before heading off to summer camp as part of the troop.

 

we've since switched troops to a different town there the boys cross over in December/January. It does give the boys a good chance to get to know the rest of the troop before heading out for summer camp. But, you can really tell the difference in maturity and beharior. Either that or the leaders and parents of the last couple of years have not been very strict on behavior and following rules.

 

IMO I would say Feb/Mar is perfect medium for allowing the boys to still get to know the rest of the troop and also allow the new boys to become just a tab more mature.

[Dbie]

My oldest son crossed over last year... in NOVEMBER. I don't know who started that tradition for our Pack, but our boys have crossed over in November for years now- well in advance of the norm. That's being changed for the current crop of Webelos II's- they will cross over next spring. I currently have a Wolf, and I'm glad his cross-over will be delayed. My older son just wasn't ready for the parent-less monthly campouts the Boy Scouts do, so he dropped out pretty quickly. If he had spent more time out on leader-lead campouts, he would have been more comfortable. And as a new parent to the Boy Scout Troop, I would have felt more comfortable with some sort of a transition period, where the parents are encouraged if not required to accompany their son on campouts through Tenderfoot. I can honestly say I wasn't comfortable sending my 10 year old on weekend overnights with a bunch of strangers. (yes, my son was 10 when he crossed over, which is also young for a 5th grader)

 

There just seems to be a huge leap between Webelos and Boy Scouts that families new to the Troop aren't prepared for.

[ElyriaLeader]

I don't see a problem with the boys crossing over in Feb., if the Webelos II leader was doing things right, they should have already been on at least a couple camp outs, and other joint activities with whatever troops the boys are looking at crossing to since they were Web. I's. So the gaining SM's should already know the boys and where they stand maturity wise. It's only when the Packs/Troops wait until the boys are Web. II's before getting together that you get this "shock factor" about camping with the troop. By the time they are ready for AOL they should know what troop they want to go to and have gone on outings with them, know the troop leadership, interacted with the boys that they will end up in a patrol with. Instead of trying to cram all the Web. den/troop activities into the last few months start working things when they become Web. I's, it makes for a smoother transition, and guess what....No surprises!(This message has been edited by ElyriaLeader)

[Gunny2862]

I would love it if Packs would come along for a day or a half day with a camping night for more than just the single excursion we support to meet a Webelos requirement once a year.

[Dbie]

"It's only when the Packs/Troops wait until the boys are Web. II's before getting together that you get this "shock factor" about camping with the troop. By the time they are ready for AOL they should know what troop they want to go to and have gone on outings with them, know the troop leadership, interacted with the boys that they will end up in a patrol with. Instead of trying to cram all the Web. den/troop activities into the last few months start working things when they become Web. I's, it makes for a smoother transition, and guess what....No surprises!"

 

That is GREAT advice- but it did not happen for my son or the II's that crossed over this past November, or the current I's we have. I'm the incoming CC for our Pack, so I'll have to talk to our leaders about implementing this strategy in the future. As Gunny's last comment suggests, it would seem that the Packs should be open to this.

 

The only camping my son did as a Webelo was a 4 day/3night Adventure Camp at our local BSA camp, with his Webelos leader and two other parents who took rotating shifts. There was no introduction to his eventual Pack until crossover- which coincided with a Pack campout. One parent could camp that weekend, but for future trips, it wasn't allowed unless they needed drivers.

 

Thank you both!

[Gunny2862]

Dbie, not all Troops are open to the idea. Because the focus becomes on putting on a show for the Webelos and/or their parents.

 

As long as we are not on a backpacking trip where we need to cover ground to go to the site we want to see, we could make accommodations for Webelos on almost any other excursion.

 

The thing to remember is that the Webelos are there to see what Boy Scouts actually do, not to see a show scripted to keep them entertained and which won't reflect what they see after they join that Troop. So make sure the expectations are communicated between the Pack/Den and the Troop you are visiting with.

[Dbie]

Thanks- I will keep that in mind.

[ElyriaLeader]

Gunny.. I hear you about the scripted show for the Webelos, that's why I talked to the scoutmasters beforehand when making the arrangements for the outing...."be yourselves" was the rules we lived by, both the troops and Webelos did this and it turned out great. After going on SEVERAL outings with EACH troop, I happily bridged my boys to ALL the troops that we partipated with (big B&G!!)

but I think we'll be less likely to lose any.

[Eagle92]

Sometimes those "scripted shows" are a benefit. My old troop developed a "wilderness survival" campout for the Webelos overnite campout out. Got the 'rents out of the way and with the other adults. Then we split the Webs into the 3 patrols, so that the Scouts and Webs got to know one another, and the scouts could help make that first campout not only memorable, but a comfortable one. taught the Webs lashings to build shelters, and each patrol built their own shelter, with the webelos helpingout. This insured that everyone had a shelter to sleep in, those Webs without the proper gear could get help from the scouts (our scouts did bring extras if possible)and we had a goood old time. This was so successful, that it became an annual event.

[ElyriaLeader]

Eagle92, thats not scripted in my book, but well planned, that's the kinds of things we did with the troops...with the boy scouts doing the teaching, it was good for the boy scouts to teach and fun for the webelos to learn, while this was going on the parents who attended were talking to the scoutmaster/asst sm about what they wanted to know about. The scripted show I'm talking about was rehearsed speeches, a ceremony welcoming the webelos to the campout, hearing some asst sm's talking to boy scouts "I don't care if you don't like these kids, just do what we told you to" (I actually heard this myself!), mostly a bunch of pomp and puffery,SM talked TO the parents, played some good dodgeball with some of the answers. To a one, none of the boys wanted to go on another outing with this troop (the only one they didn't), so no...your outing has all the makings of a wonderful way to introduce your troop to the prospective webelos dens..congratulations on a job well done!

[Gunny2862]

Eagle92, I agree with ElyriaLeader what you are describing may be scripted or planned but isn't what I was talking about. And would be a perfectly good example of preparing for your guests. Although it might not be the way the Troop usually does things...

 

ElyriaLeader's example is much more in line with what I was referring to.