not mature enough to crossover?

[bearshark]

Good day scouters. I have a question. I have been a den leader and asst Cub Master before when my son was in the program.

We have since been in a troop for three years now, and have been through a couple different troops (moved household).

I believe it has always been the tradition that cubs crossover more or less at the Feb Pack meeting/B&G. Understandably maybe in March given some circumstances. I have accepted a position of troop liason with my son as Den Cheif to a Web II den getting ready for crossover. The den leader tells me that he spoke with our CC and the CC said something to the fact that the Webs aren't mature enough to crossover in March, they need to wait until the end of the school year. Without having talked to the CC myself...we have our issues with each other at the moment...this is all the info I have. Heresay I know, but has anyone heard of a troop not accepting crossovers when thier time in the cubs is over?(This message has been edited by bearshark)

[Lisabob]

Gee, somebody needs to talk with the CC and find out what was said and what was meant. Who knows, those may be the same thing and they may not be. But no, I've not heard of solid troops making that kind of blanket statements to prospective new members and in the absence of additional info, it does raise a red flag.

 

Usually the push to keep kids in cubbing comes from the cub leaders and parents, who aren't ready to see the boys become boy scouts. Sometimes they're even justified and I have seen a number of boys who were NOT mature enough but crossed over anyway and were miserable. Sadly, those fellows don't last very long. Maybe they'd have been better off waiting a bit longer.

 

But without further info on what your CC was thinking, or maybe what the CC knows about these boys in particular that you do not know, it is hard to figure out what's happening there. So if you aren't in a position to have good conversation with the CC right now, find someone who can to get this cleared up.

[ScoutNut]

Actually, the former SM of our Troop had that same attitude. He refused to allow the boys to cross into the Troop until the end of 5th grade. Then, since the only thing they did all summer was summer camp (which the new Scouts did not attend), the boys did not start actually meeting with the Troop until Sept of 6th grade.

 

Even when he was eventually forced to take new Scouts in February or March, he would still not let them attend Summer Camp with the Troop.

 

He then could not understand it when boys started going to other Troops, not coming back after Summer, and the Troop was down to under 10 active Scouts.

 

DUH!

 

[SSScout]

I have been of the opinion that Feb. is too early for Webs to crossover. Our local packs/Troops usually arrrange for C/Os in April and May, sometimes at a Pack picnic, when the OA team can do their signature Flaming Arrow ceremony (NOT in the church social hall!). The expected bridging, and handover from CM to SM, they receive their new neckers,hats and handbooks and loops. I know in my home Troop, we have summer activities that seek to involve the new Scouts, and they are invited to attend the summer cqmp, where they invariably earn Scout and/or Tenderfoot. There's always room for some more Scouts at camp!

 

I have never heard of a ustabe Webelos that wasn't eager to get in deep with Boy Scout stuff. Why make it difficult?

[evmori]

Are most Webelos mature enough to crossover to a Troop? Probably not, but that has nothing to do with whether they can or not. If they have earned their AOL, they can no longer earn any Cub stuff so why not crossover! When I was a SM, I loved getting new Webelos!

[gcnphkr]

I find February early for crossover for logistic reasons. Partly because the district pinewood derbies tend to be in March and the district crossover is in late March or April. The bulk of the crossover occurs later for us and I'm never sure what to do with the early crossovers.

 

I also don't like having AOL at the same time as crossover. Mostly this is from a ceremonial POV, the images in the two events don't transition all that well. Also it assumes that all the scouts getting their AOL are continuing to Boy Scouts. I feel a bit sorry for the 1 or 2 Webelos who are standing up there with nowhere to go. Better to give out the AOL in one ceremony and then do the crossover at another.

[GKlose]

I guess I have a slightly (only slightly!) different opinion than most...a new, crossed-over scout is 10-1/2 or older. Are all 10-1/2 to 11 year olds at the same maturity level? No, of course not. But who's to say that moving on to an older age range activity, like Boy Scouts, is not exactly what they need?

 

From my point of view, it is important to crossover new scouts early enough that they can get a few nights of camping under their belt, along with several patrol and troop meetings, before summer camp. If a troop is actively discouraging young scouts at summer camp (as ScoutNut described) then they're really not building a thriving program, are they?

 

Guy

[SMT224]

Our feeder Cub Pack does it's Crossover in late April. This seems to work great. We have a Troop/AOL camping trip in early April, which allows the Weebs & parents to meet the Troop and have a fun camp out in what is usually fairly comfortable weather. There is a separate AOL ceremony in mid-April, and then the full crossover at the end of April. The new Scouts can go camping with the Troop in May and June - two fairly easy and comfortable camp outs, and then go to summer camp with the Troop in July. By July they are ready and psyched for summer camp and can fully participate in the First Year Camper Program.

 

We do not have any kind of "maturity rating" - they just crossover and either like it or don't. If they discover they do not like to camp, or just can not stand being away from mom and dad, they know it before going off to summer camp and self-filter out. No problem there - not all kids like to camp or be in the outdoors. But we have 75% - 100% retention of the crossovers, so it seems most who were Cubs like being a Scout.

 

[scoutldr]

Not sure what difference 60 days is going to make to their "maturity level". As someone else said, the goal is to get them crossed over and integrated into the troop so they can go to their first summer camp as "first year campers" that summer.

[Beavah]

Yah, I'm with scoutldr. If maturity is da real issue, yeh have to only take lads in the spring of 6th grade. That's sometimes good advice for really immature boys who aren't ready for da separation anxiety. Take a year off and come back in 6th grade and they're rarin' to go. Two months ain't goin' to matter.

 

Up here in da north February is an awful time to cross over, because if the new lads start campin' with the troop right away it's in the toughest weather which they don't have the experience or gear for. Can make their first experiences in a troop bad ones unless da troop is really careful. Better to wait for April. Still gives yeh time to get some campin' time in before summer camp, but in better weather that doesn't demand as much kit.

 

Beavah

 

[Stosh]

I'm up here with Beavah, but I have the opposite reaction to the situation. I like to get the boys in Feb so they have time to learn how to camp, acquire the skills, equipment, go to the camporee in May for a shakeout to get the boys fired up (they don't participate in the camporee per se, just go, do the meals, set up tents, and the basics, campfire etc., the fun stuff) then when they get ready for summer camp they spend their time reviewing their experience, what went right, what went wrong and start their menus, etc. getting ready for patrol method camping at summer camp. By the end of the summer when the boys come home from summer camp, they are veteran campers at a time when other boys are just starting out, especially those that crossed over late and didn't get an opportuity to go to summer camp the first year.

 

It just depends on how one gets the boys organized and how quickly they catch on. Boys at that age tend to be rather eager to get out and start the camping process as quickly as they can.

 

Summer is the time for outings, when we get the boys in Feb, we have enough lead time to make sure they're ready for it.

 

Stosh

[scottteng]

Those who think their is a lot of maturity in the average boy scout troop are kidding themselves. The leaders are there to keep them from killing each other until they at least learn some restraint if not real maturity. That is why we assign a guide to the new scout patrol otherwise they will eat peanut butter and bagels for every meal on the campout. The young ones need to get some camping under their belt before summer camp and that dreaded whole week away from home.

[scoutldr]

"they don't participate in the camporee per se"

 

Well, why in the world not??? Are they not members of your Troop? What better way to get them functioning as a patrol!

[Gunny2862]

I'll take a Scout who is at the the minimum age allowed at any time of the year, just leave the "Heli Mom" behind. The Scout I can deal with...

[Buffalo Skipper]

I really like the February or March thing. In fact, I think it is one of the best things BSA did for Webelos and Boy Scouts. Like Stosh says, this gives the boys 3-4 months of skill building and experience camping before summer camp. Not mature enough? Of course they are not. That's why you want them in late winter to give them the opportunities to mature in the troop by summer camp. Leaving them in an adult led environment with little direction is hardly the place I would expect them to mature magically on their own.

 

As for Pinewood derby and similar activities, packs hold them in late January and the district race is at the beginning of February, making this their last big hurrah before crossing over.

 

I also disagree with the idea of not combining AOL and Crossover. AOL is their qualification to cross to Boy Scouts. To me that is like giving a 16 year passing a drivers test but being told they must wait 3 months before they will be given their license, because they are not ready. As for Webelos "hanging around" after the AOL and not crossing over, well if they have no intention to cross over then why are they in Webelos at all? The purpose of the Webelos program is to prepare cubs for Boy Scouts. I look at this as a 16 year old who had taken driver's ed, passed his driver's test, begin given a car, but leaving it in the driveway because he doesn't really want to drive, he just wanted a license.

 

On the flip side, there are some local packs who have the AOL at the B&G and then have crossover at a pack campout a few weeks later. The troops camp nearby and at the campfire, the boys leave the pack and spend the night with the troop. Parents are left to spend the night with the pack (separate) but a few hundered yards from their boys. I do not really like this idea, but it is what happens.

 

I believe that sometimes pack leadership gets too full of themselves and tries to regulate these boys futures. As a SM, I will take them as they come. Our job is to turn them into young men, not wait until their other leaders say the may become young men.

 

Just my 2c.