Pinewood Derby Politics

[Pepe]

Hi:

 

We are a small pack of about 20 active kids and are planning our 3rd derby. Once again this year we will be borrowing a track from another den which has been very gracious to us.

 

I have asked our cubmaster to reconsider building our own track, nothing too expensive. I found everything I need to build the 2 lane track from plastic parts with no electronics for about $200.00. The whole setup is made from plastic and pvc which makes it very portable and easy to maintain and is upgradeable up to 6 lanes.

 

We were supposed to discuss this at last month's pack mtg and bring it up to a parent vote but NO, it was never mentioned. Our CM decided that we would again borrow one. Most of the parents that I spoke to were on board to build our own 2 laner since we are small there is no need for 6 lanes.

 

I am in charge of running the event and have been accused of trying to sabotage the event. At this point feel like quitting as a DL and taking my son to another pack. I suspect that the CM wants a wood track so that he can race his car again as his son's car. I know that last year he took his own winning car, repainted it and had his son run it. BTW, his son won by a landslide.

 

Any suggestions?

Have you had the same experience?

Would you build the track made from plastic?

Small pack - would you build a 2 laner?

 

Thanks for your input!

 

[Gunny2862]

I would look at my location and growth prospects to decide about the track size.

 

I would seriously consider going ahead and building a four lane even if I had to do it over time (for next years event). Reasoning: 1) If the Pack grows you have it. 2)It will shorten the time necessary for the event. 3) If YOU fund and build it you own it and can rent or loan it to other Packs in your current position. 4) Remember, though that others who don't own one will still accuse you of cheating because your son could pre-run his car and "tune" it to your track - so develop a thick skin if your son will be racing on your track.

 

Has the no reusing rule been enforced in the past? If not you need to get buy in to start getting it enforced. If so bringing up what happened last year will probably not get you anything but resistance for ongoing Pack efforts. In an AWANA group I saw, they cut a 1/4 inch deep by 1/8th inch wide groove down the entire side of one side of the car so it could still be displayed but would require extensive modification not to show the groove at the next inspection(thus making it a different car in order to reuse.

 

Also, allowing different car classes(by the book for the Kids, by the book adults and unlimited open) can sometimes get past the reuse issues.

 

Have you considered asking a Troop to do a service project by running your event for you?

No Cub Scout parent involvement in running the events - fewer possible conflicts.

And if they choose to mark the car in some way(see above) to prevent re-use then it isn't a Pack issue.

 

[Pepe]

Thanks for the input. We do let the other pack run the race for us and would just setup the location. Our derby rules state that no car from previous years can be raced but I know our CM broke the rule. Interesting idea about marking up the cars.

 

I see your point on the 4 lanes and have no problem building it to 4 lanes. My problem is the CM and the pack management. If I was CM, i would be soooooo much different. (I am venting here, sorry.)

[raisinemright]

I like the idea of marking the car, but defacing the entire car with a saw cut is kind of extreme. Perhaps a braning iron could be made or bought that marks the car on the bottom as having passed inspection.

[Gunny2862]

I agree with the idea of being able to simply brand or even put a sticker on for an inspection; but in some locales, with some parents, the extremity is called for in order to force modification to prevent reuse of the same car. The sawing mentioned above was brought into play - sadly - at a church sponsored club, not Cub Scouts and was done after the races but before return of the cars to the kids or their parents. It was done on one side only so that those who did play fair were still able to display their car.

 

The sawing was not about the cars first presentation at a race for inspection, but to prevent the same car from simply being used for repeated years events with no modifications. A winning car and a poor attitude will sometimes drive people to try to reuse a car.

[OneHour]

I don't know much about the plastic. We have BestTrack tracks for a while now. It is much better than wooden tracks where they can warp. BestTrack 2-lane is about $491.

 

BetaCrafts has aluminum track plating that you can get it 4" x 93" at $15.75 and build it from there. So $120, you can have 2-lane 31' track. Of course, you will need to have to have wooden base to add to it. By the time it is all said and done, the complete alum track is about the same.

 

http://www.betacrafts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=61&osCsid=44d491e9192d4a40f7cfc88f880f3cc5

 

If you can afford it, buy the aluminum track.

 

Now, as for rerun cars ... we take photos of cars each year. We hold them to their honesty. Now, having said that, if a parent/scout pair found the perfect formula in terms of shape, wheels, and lubes, there is no reason why they should change the winning formula. They can cut have the same shape. The easiest way to do this to ask the boy ... how did he build the car! That's where bought cars and reuse cars come out. Branding them... good idea, but you have to make sure that it doesn't get painted over.

 

 

 

[Pepe]

Thanks for the info on BetaCrafts. The cost of 2 lanes is actually about the same as the plastic. I was going to support the upper 10' portion of the track with wood anyway as it the "take off ramp" and the rest is on the ground as a straight run.

 

I like the branding idea but true, if the brand is not deep enough, it can be puttied over and painted.

 

I just had a parent email me asking if she can use the same car. I don't mind if they use the same design, just re-create the car using a new kit.

 

[DenZero]

If you use partial perfect n instead of double elimination, the number of heats will be the same regardless of the number of lanes, as every car has to run in every lane. I recommend using PPN, as it is generally more fair, and keeps the interest level up. Having more lanes keeps more boys in the race at any given time, making the race more interesting.

 

Talk to your District Executive and see if he can put you in touch with the packs that didnt recharter this year. They probably have tracks that someone is tired of storing, and would be glad to give it to you.

 

 

[Nike]

If you are going to brand/mark car bottoms, then you should have a pack rule that undersides should never be painted.

 

Sad that these things have to be done.

[evmori]

Branding the car & requiring the underside be unpainted works well. If a car is submitted with a painted underside, it doesn't race.

[Hal_Crawford]

Wow! When my son was in Cubs there was never this level of drama. The kids built there cars, raced them, won or lost but had a good time. The parents were pretty good about seeing it as a fun activity rather than race day at Daytona. Each years' car was a little worse than the year before as the parents helped less as the boys got older.

 

Pardon my French but competitive a**hole parents is why I was glad my son chose Cub Scouts rather than soccer or Little League.

 

I assume that your son has friends inn the pack don't pull your son out over parent politics. It sounds like the pack needs a new CM as he sets a bad example through his behavior. I'll bet he moves on when his son crosses over to Boy Scouts. He'll need the time to work on his son's Eagle.

 

 

[ScoutNut]

I have never seen a plastic/PVC PWD track. I would think there would be strength and stability issues with that kind of design.

 

You stated that making that kind of track, with 2 lanes, would cost about $200, but that you can't get the CM (where is the CC?) to agree. Perhaps the problem is that the $200 your track would cost is not in this year's budget. I would try bringing up the matter of a new track at next month's committee/leaders meeting. Perhaps it is something that can be highlighted as a goal for next year's popcorn sale. Or, the Pack could discuss a separate money-earning activity earmarked specifically for a new track.

 

You said that you have been accused of trying to sabotage the PWD. How? By lobbying for a new track? By not wanting families to reuse old cars? By encouraging boy made cars? I am not sure I understand this one.

 

You also said - " I suspect that the CM wants a wood track so that he can race his car again as his son's car." Not sure I understand this one either. What difference does the composition of, or number of lanes in, a track have to do with what car someone races? If an adult is going to make his son's car for him, how will running the race on a plastic 2-lane track change that?

 

There are tons of web sites out there that give all sorts of hints on how to get the fastest car. Why not simply send out a list of the sites, along with your Pack PWD rules, to every family in the Pack (including the CM)? Then it is up to the boys and their families how they want to build their cars.

 

BTW - I agree with DenZero, Partial Perfect N is the way to go for maximum races and fun.

 

[Pepe]

The plastic/pvc track is very similiar to the supertrack sold by supertimer.com. My thought was to use 3/4" pvc for the support structure and insert 1/2" emt pipe into the pvc for added weight and support on the bottom and upper sections. I've done this before on some other projects and if done correctly, it's very stable. The supertrack system uses cords to string the support structure together and tighten it up. I like the use of plastic and pvc because its lightweight, very portable and the cases to store everything would be small compared to those used for storing 8' aluminum or wood track sections.

 

The $200.00 is not really an issue because a majority of the parents that I spoke to personally are willing to contribute to the cause and we would have no problem raising the funds. The CM, agreed to present the topic at the pack meeting and did not. At the pack mtg I presented the pros/cons sheet I had made up as a handout. The CM did not distribute the flyers nor was the topic presented to the parents. It was not an issue of running out of time as we had plenty of time. When I approached the CM afterwards, I was abruptly told that it's a dead issue and that we're not going to build the track. BTW, the CC is the spouse.

 

I was accused of sabotage because I was "not trying hard enough to get the loaner track" and that "I was doing that to get the new track built". That's not the case. The CC at the other troop is trying to get us the track but is hitting some walls of his own.

 

I sent out the rules and like last year, it stated that cars from previous years could not be re-used. They had to be built new from the kits provided. I heard from another den leader, as I suspected, that he used his car from previous year and re-painted it. He broke the rules but I cannot prove it.

 

I'll look at the PNP. I have the excel spreadsheets for the Stream method.

[IM_Kathy]

pinewood drama - makes me glad my son is now in boy scouts.

 

our old track was warped a bit and so one lane was faster than the other... so that became a major pain and spurred pack into getting a new track.

 

then we had the boys reusing cars... we had a sibling and non-scout catagory so any returned cars were put in that group. That group got to race, but had no prizes for winning races of for design.

 

and then we had the 1 parent who worked in a field that had a very percise scale and would push the weight to the highest it could get without seting off our weigh in scale.

 

I don't know why parents can't just let their kids be kids and have fun. But parents don't seem to get it... that's why we have to have a rules list.

[Melgamatic]

I know that even with our 3-year old aluminum Best Track, there are some lanes that are faster than the others. There is an easy solution: run all the cars in all the lanes. We have a 6-lane track, so each car races 6 times. We have around 50 cubs, but we start at 9am and are done before noon, staging each set of races every 45 minutes with the tiger cubs starting first (and then they can leave if they want or need to).

 

I know lane 6 is more bumpy, and lane 2 is very fast. Doesn't matter.

 

Their overall score is the average of their 6 races. DerbyMaster takes car of setting up the races and doing the math, so it's mostly a matter of someone sitting at the computer calling out the cars, and someone carefully lining them up. We also setup an overhead LCD projector with the scores so that people don't have to crowd the scoring area. You can see it from anywhere in the room.

 

-Melgamatic