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Adult leader training at resident camp


SctDad

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As I stated in the other thread I like the idea that baschram645 brought up.

 

So what I am looking for is some suggestions for training while the Cubs are at the resident camp activities. Just as an example:

 

While the Cubs are at Handycraft

 

Have the parents that are present help keep an eye on the Cubs, and have the Registered leaders go to an area that is nearby to get their required youth protection.

 

Another thing that I could use for suggestions is what other training woudl you like to see.

 

I will be reviewing the course outline from the Cub Leader Training books and looking at the time frames.

 

Once I get some good information I will present this to the director again with the new info.

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You can offer all the generic courses that every Cub Leader should have. Youth Protection Training or New Leader Essentials are a way to start the day. In the PM you can have position specific training. Den Leader, Webelos Den Leader training and any other training that the adults who register request. This way you get some training done and there is still time in the day for the parents and Pack leaders to enjoy the programs with their cubs.

 

You can also conduct some workshops that might appeal to Den Leaders such as Ceremonies, Advancement Helps etc. These are things that might be done at UofS but this gives a leader the chance to get some training the they might have missed due to other commitments.

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Cub Scout Summer Camp is a LOT different from a Boy Scout Merit Badge College, or Boy Scout Summer Camp.

 

Cub Scouts are generally NOT there on their OWN. They do not move about the activities independently, each boy following his own schedule with the adults sitting at a campsite, or at the waterfront doing their own thing. Packs generally do not sign up as a group with all of the boys, and only the registered leaders and a parent or two along.

 

Many Cub Scout resident camps are 1:1, boy:parent ratio. The parents are paying $100+ to go with their son to Summer Camp. Of the families that go to Summer Camp, only a small percentage are Leaders and their sons. And again, they are there to spend time WITH THEIR SON, not go to training.

 

In my council BALOO costs $10, NLE is $2, Cub Specific is $5, Youth Protection is free online. Why on earth would I pay $100+, and give up time with my son, to take trainings that would cost me $20?

 

On top of all of that, you are asking District trainers to volunteer to spend weeks of their summer at Cub Scout Camp. It is hard enough getting trainers for a few hours in the evening, much less for weeks in the summer.

 

 

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Webelos Camp is not necessarily 1:1 ratio.

 

My Council can and has offered several of the standard trainings at Webelos Camp.

 

A neighboring Council has for some years routinely offered at Boy Scout Camp:

- YP

- NLE

- Scoutmaster specific

- SSD/SA

 

That's in addition to the program offering of BSA Lifeguard.

 

 

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In response to ScoutNut

 

OUr summercamp has posted the flyer stating that while they do RECOMMEND parents attend, the only requirements are 2 deep leadership and a HIGHLY RECOMMENDED 5:1 ratio of Cubs:Adults. When they are moving from station to station they will be in rank/age appropriate groups. Wolves with wolves, bears with bears. The next part of camp will be for Webelos I and II.

 

So if the staff has the Cubs attention and they are all working together, then if one of the registered leaders has the oppurtunity, then why not try to train them. Our camp prices are as follows. $105 for the boy and $45 for the adult.

 

I saw an oppurtunity when someone mentioned it and presented it to the camp director. He thought it was a good idea. Especially considering our district has some serious training issues. If someone has come and paid for summercamp (BTW the camp is 4 days and 3 Nights), why not try to get some training in for the registered leaders.

 

Thank you for the training ideas that have been given so far. I look foward to seeing some more come through today.

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I've been to a number of Cub functions over the last couple of years, and I'm continually bored out of my skull because, in general, nothing is planned for parents (besides watching their kids) -- and yes, I do understand that some dens and cubs need heavy supervision, but I've also seen many cases where this isn't necessary (ex: at a Webelos Woods event, group of 8 Webelos are circulating to stations; 8 moms and dads standing around, watching them be entertained).

 

Our district, however, recently ran a Chuckwagon where there were some extra things planned. While dens were busy with different activities (a den would be at a station, doing some sort of fun activity, and the station was run by an adult Scouter or a Boy Scout), there were some Pow-Wow-like training sessions that were thrown together, so that cub parents and den leaders had something to do. All in all, with some rough edges to work out, things went spectacularly well.

 

YPT would have been good to offer (but we didn't). We did offer NLE. One guy did a session specifically on games for Cubs. I personally taught a session called "Trail To Eagle" (I didn't come up with the concept, but I revised and delivered the session). I also threw in a short powerpoint I did on the history of Cub Scouting (I'd guess that most Cub parents don't know about B-P, Brownsea Island, William Boyce, etc).

 

The rationale behind my "Trail to Eagle" session is that lots of Cub parents know the achievements and requirements, and electives, at their own level, and the levels before, but they may not, for example, know what Webelos is all about, or the transition to Scouts, or the joining requirements for Boy Scouts, or the Boy Scout advancement continuum, what merit badges really are, which are required for Eagle or what it really means to be an Eagle Scout. They had already learned that Advancement was only one method (in NLE), but my session was to show them what advancement was all about.

 

One thing I picked up from this forum was the graduated nature of certain requirements: you have Tiger Cubs that "go on a hike with your adult partner", stepping up through longer hikes and planning hikes at higher levels, to a 5-mile hike as a Tenderfoot, to Hiking merit badge (if a scout decides to do it). There is a similar progression with first aid skills, and camping skills, swimming and water safety, and cooking skills. It really is a well thought out program (but then again, all of us knew that!).

 

I left plenty of time for questions, and it was great fun. I only saw one person dozing, and one guy texting (but I later learned he was a very experienced Scout and Scouter).

 

So, overall this Chuckwagon and training session went very well. I have just one complaint overall -- occasionally, a Cub would head off to a restroom down a hallway, get distracted and then wander (this event was being held at a vocational school, in a big multi-purpose room). We'd hear security come over the PA telling the Cub to rejoin the group. They were obviously watching hallways by video. We should have had hall monitors in place, to make sure that Cubs made it to the restroom and back without incident. We should have also had a buddy system spelled out, so Cubs would only travel to restrooms in pairs, or small groups.

 

Guy

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When my son was a Webelo the camp we went to offered Safe Swim Defense for interested adults. If I recall they did this during an evening activity period when all the Webelos were being supervised by camp staff. SSD can now be taken on line but for a number of adults this was the first hint that such training existed.

 

There was one amusing moment. A woman asked why this training was important. Before the instructor could answer a leader wearing a USMC Long Range Recon tee shirt stood up, swaggered up to the front, turned and said "Because water is DEATH... WAITING... TO HAPPEN". The class continued in dead silence.

 

On the Boy Scout level our council camp has recently started offering a range adult of training including CPR. In addition to the training opportunities, our SE comes to the reservation every week and hosts a steak dinner for the adults (there are 3 BS and 2 CS camps so it is huge) while staff eats with the scouts in the various camps. After dinner there is a discussion of some relevant topic... one year it was about the camps and what people liked and didn't, another it was a discussion of the concepts put forward in the book "Last Child in the Woods" and another it was a lively discussion of whether Paint Ball should be an approved scout activity. Never a dull moment.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I have trouble conducting a meeting, or paying attnetion to ANY type of training when there are scouts around.

 

I'm a CM and have a scout in the pack. If there are scout aged kids around, I'm constantly in "adult leader" mode. That means even when they are engaged in an activity (that I'm not in charge of or a participant in as well), I am observing to see if someone needs extra help, or someone (in particular my son) needs to be reminded to be on good behavoir, etc...

 

I doubt I'd be able to concentrate enough to get anything out of a training at the camp. Besides - I'm with ScoutNut - why would I pay $100+ to attend training, when really the reason I'm paying the money is so that I can go and camp with my son and have "someone else" be in charge of the planning and execution of the event for a change.

 

If I need training (which I am up to date on), I'll burn a Saturday of my own time and pay $25 to do it at the council offices, without the cubbie interruptions.

 

I think its a good concept, but probably a poor thing in reality.

 

Besides - resident camp is about the scouts. Just as I scoff at talking bylaws or financials in the presence of scouts (thats for adult leaders to worry about), I scoff at ADULT training at a cub focused function. We have enough adults that forget its about the boys on a regular basis - we don't need to schedule their training to purposely conflict with their "quality time" with their scout.

 

If there are 8-10 adults standing around "bored out of their mind" while the scouts are doing something cool, then I might suggest the adults need to engage and get involved in whatever "cool" thing the scouts are doing. Otherwise - just drop Jr. off at the camp and come pick him up in 4 days - you've already mentally checked out of his camp expirience anyways.

 

"Resident Camp - its about THEM - not about YOU"

 

(might have to get that put on a T-shirt this summer !)

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With the Camp Directors curosity peaked, I went through and broke down the training for at least one of the days that we would be at camp. I was able to fit Baloo training into the day and get all of the training sessions built in.

 

I just have to look into day one, or I might just go through and spread baloo out a little more as to not bore orover do it.

 

I also like the idea of the discussion group. Sounds like a good plan.

 

I will have to present some of the other ideas.

 

Dean.

 

I can understand what you mean by the camp is for the cubs, but this was a general thought that is going to be something that will probably be offered.

 

I have one other question, does anyone out there have any training material on the Outdoor Webelos Leader training.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

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I'm old school and offer a contrary opinion. None.

 

Scouter leaders should have YP, Safe Swim Defense, (come on, those are online, how easy is that) leader training, and First Aid BEFORE taking their unit to summer camp.

 

At Summer camp, spend time outside with your scouts. Share their successes, see their smiles, console their losses, bandage their boo-boos, take photos, laugh, swat mosquitoes. Be there with your scouts. If that's not what you want, if you want training courses at summer camp - don't go to summer camp. You can yak with adults or look at flip charts, at Round Tables, Pack Committee, District training, etc. but don't lose out on scout summer camp.

 

I would not miss one of my scouts taking his swim test or shooting or even artsy-fartsy at Handicraft. Sorry Scout Executive, but I can't make your fireside chat. I will be at a real campfire enjoying smores made by my scouts.

 

my 2c

 

 

 

 

 

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"OUr summercamp has posted the flyer stating that while they do RECOMMEND parents attend, the only requirements are 2 deep leadership and a HIGHLY RECOMMENDED 5:1 ratio of Cubs:Adults. When they are moving from station to station they will be in rank/age appropriate groups. Wolves with wolves, bears with bears. The next part of camp will be for Webelos I and II. So if the staff has the Cubs attention and they are all working together, then if one of the registered leaders has the oppurtunity, then why not try to train them."

 

"I went through and broke down the training for at least one of the days that we would be at camp. I was able to fit Baloo training into the day and get all of the training sessions built in. I just have to look into day one, or I might just go through and spread baloo out a little more as to not bore orover do it."

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Why no train at Summer Camp? Because the 2+ adults are at Cub Camp for the CUBS not to go off and do their own thing.

 

I have staffed Cub Summer Camp, both Day and Resident. I am there to run the station, NOT babysit the Cubs. If I have a missing adult, I will send one of the other adults to go find them and drag them back over. If I have adults relaxing in the grass chatting to each other or on their cell phone, I will stop the session and get them back, and involved. THEY are in charge of THEIR Cubs - NOT me.

 

I am a Course Director for BALOO. I don't like the idea of running BALOO training at Cub Summer Camp. There is a LOT of information there. It is an entire day jam packed with training. To take the adults away from their Cubs for an entire day of summer camp is not good. To cut back on the content of the training is also not good. To run it piecemeal means that you will need qualified BALOO Trainers out there at Camp all Summer. Good luck with that, unless of course you intend to use any handy, warm body as a trainer.

 

And what happens if you do not get enough Cub parents interested in these trainings? Then you have Council Training Team members (or your misc handy warm bodies) out there all Summer, basically wasting time and money.

 

I can see running some training courses at BOY SCOUT Summer Camp. Totally different scenario, with totally different kind of camping going on.

 

However, CUB SCOUT Camp is about the Cubs. The adults attending with the Cubs should be INVOLVED WITH THE CUBS. Or they should not be there.

 

My 2 cents

 

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It would be my comments that made DeanRx say this:

 

"If there are 8-10 adults standing around "bored out of their mind" while the scouts are doing something cool, then I might suggest the adults need to engage and get involved in whatever "cool" thing the scouts are doing."

 

The functions I've been talking about specifically are Webelos-related (Webelos Woods, Webelos Arrow of Light Weekend, and a Readyman Day), and events were specifically set up for Webelos involvement, not adult involvement. I think it is wholly-appropriate for a Webelos Den to function together, much like a Boy Scout patrol would, when participating in an activity. If a den leader, or at least one other adult is around -- or go crazy, and have two-deep -- that leaves every other parent there with pretty much nothing to do except talk with each other. That's fine, but after a few hours of that, the novelty may just wear off. I've been to these functions multiple times as my kids have filtered through the program. I can definitely see what works and what doesn't (example: Readyman Day, where Webelos were herded from place to place where someone would seat them and then talk at them for almost an hour, and then they would be herded somewhere else and the cycle repeated...for the Webelos, it meant several hours sitting around and listening, and towards the end of the day, getting chastised for being antsy).

 

Cub Scouts may definitely be parent-child oriented, but Webelos is definitely different. This clearly isn't a case where the adults need to engage, and in fact I would argue it is best for everyone involved that the adults disengage.

 

In any case, in our district, I was part of a training event that happened to coincide with a Cub event. Our experiment went quite well, and we learned something along the way. I'm sure we'll do it again in the future.

 

Guy

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First Off, This is not a ALL SUMMER CAMP. Look at some of the previous posts and you will see that it is 4 days and 3 nights.

 

Second, when it come to it, if the leaders are there and bored out of their mind becuase the staff is doing s great job with the activities, and the parents are standing back watching, then why not give some additional training for the registered leaders that are present. I understand that if there is some behavior issues then the leaders need to get the boys back in line. I did not say that the leaders would be a mile down the road. I am talking about having the training session right next to the activity station. Example, the boys are at handycraft, let the training be behind the hut. I also understand that this is time to spend with the boys, but why not have a small block of training on certain activities. Makes for a better program, maybe even a quality program.

 

These were just some suggestions as to some of the things that could be done.

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So, you only have 1 session of 4day/3night Cub/Webelos Summer Camp all summer long? How strange, my council has 4 sessions of 4day/3night, and 6 sessions of 2 day/1night, Cub Resident Camp. Pretty much covers the entire summer.

 

Or, are you only going to run the training during 1 session?

 

Sorry, I still don't buy it. Maybe you could make it work at Webelos Camp, but for the general Tiger thru Bear group, I don't see it.

 

Even at the "handicraft" station, the problem is NOT discipline, the problem is many of the Cubbies need hands on help. The problem is at a 5:1 ratio, if you take away that 1, even if it is only to around the corner, or the next room, then you no longer have the mandated ratio. You have other adults covering twice the number of kids to make up for those who are off doing their own thing. I don't see how that makes it a "better", or a "quality", program.

 

But, hey, that's just me, viewed from the perspective of my council's Cub programs and training.

 

I wish you luck.

 

 

 

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ScoutNut

 

The Cub Encampment is like this

 

Session 1 Wolf/Bear Sunday afternoon to Wednesday morning

 

Session 2 Webelos I/II Wednesday Afternoon to Saturday Morning.

 

There is only one week because we probably would not have enough participation to do more than one. They are using the same camp that the council uses for summer camp. The week that we are going to be there will be an off week for boy scouts. So we will have the camp staff there to run the stations.

 

As for the 5:1 Ratio. THat is the minimum recommendation. I have a funny feeling that it will be more likely 1:1 or 2:1.

 

I don't knnow what it is like in your council, but some of the council activities here are not highly used by Cub Scouts. We are working on that, trying to get it promoted.

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