Questions of faith

[Bob White]

Do you remember reading the passage in the BSA's Declaraton of the Religios Principle that says the BSA is

[Stosh]

As a scout leader for many years, YES I have promoted "other faiths" over the years to insure the boys have an opportunity to fulfill their obligation to the 12th Law. When I have a Muslim family in my unit, the boy is encouraged to earn his religious knot just as if that boy happened to be of my religion.

 

If a scout leader cannot be tolerant of the beliefs of others, he/she needs to move on to a program that doesn't deal with multiple religions as does the BSA.

 

Stosh

[Trevorum]

Bob, then stop telling people they have to believe in YOUR "God" in order to be Scouts. Many scouts and Scouters do not beleve in ANY ASPECT your mythology, including Buddhists, Hindus, Wiccans, and UU's, and we are just as good citizens as Christians, Jews, and Muslims, despite what you think and despite how you want to interpret the DRP. How about respecting OUR beliefs for a change.

[packsaddle]

Stosh, I would like to reiterate a response by ScoutNut to your statement, in part, that we are "...producing Eagle Scouts, who should be an example of religious, moral character that don't actively participate in any religion, have stated it as such, and basically defy the Eagle Boards to challenge them."

 

I would also like to know where it is stated that a boy is required to participate in a religion to qualify for the rank of Eagle?

I would also like to know why an Eagle BOR should "challenge" them on this basis?

Where do leaders get the responsiblity to usurp the role of the parents and families in these matters? Where do I find these guidelines and policies?

 

It is sure nice to know that with all the uncertainties we encounter in this world, we all can count on religion to divide us.

[Stosh]

Why would anyone want to join a Christian, Islamic or Hebrew organization just to get in their face and challenge them? Or worse yet, join so they can get the credibility that comes with the organization without ever intending to honor that credibility.

 

Surely any Eagle that does such, is in fact in name only and has not fulfilled the requirements of the award. And yes, it specifies that the scout is to live according to the Oath and Law in the scout spirit requirement. If he's lying and has no intention of following the expectations of those oaths, then he has in fact not fulfilled the requirements for the award.

 

If one has no intention of being an honest scout, then why go through the motions unless they are seeking the recognition for selfish gain. Yep, that's always possible, but surely a parlor scout with such credentials is not really an Eagle scout any more than me buying an Eagle medal off of E-Bay and wearing it on my uniform.

 

Character is not something one wears on a shirt.

 

Stosh

[evmori]

Don't concern yourself with the opinions of Judeo-Christian supremacists.

 

This is an extremely inflammatory post & should be removed & the poster sanctioned.

[perdidochas]

Trevorum wrote:

Yeah, but if we admit we do not believe that God is the "ruling and leading power in the universe", some Judeo-Christian supremecist will tell us we do not qualify to be Scouts.

 

Please where is that stated or implied by anyone on this thread?

 

There is no necessity to be any particular faith to be a Boy Scout. However, there is a requirement to recognize that there is a God (or gods) and that Scouts have obligations to God (or their gods).

[perdidochas]

Trevorum wrote: Bob, then stop telling people they have to believe in YOUR "God" in order to be Scouts. Many scouts and Scouters do not beleve in ANY ASPECT your mythology, including Buddhists, Hindus, Wiccans, and UU's, and we are just as good citizens as Christians, Jews, and Muslims, despite what you think and despite how you want to interpret the DRP. How about respecting OUR beliefs for a change.

 

I think you are reading things into what Bob wrote.  His main point was that Scouts have a duty to their God, whatever or whoever that might be. 

[Bob White]

"Bob, then stop telling people they have to believe in YOUR "God" in order to be Scouts."

 

Trevorum, I challenge you to identify a single post of mine where I made any such claim. In fact I welcome anyone the opportunity to sho a link to any post of mine that says this.

 

Let the hunt begin!

 

 

[SSScout]

We really do need a seperate Forum section to discuss the R word.

 

As a Woodbadge project, I undertook to get the Houses of Worship within a two mile radius of our local town center to hold open houses (for lack of a better term) all on the same weekend, for Scouts to visit (and earn a patch, natch!). I found no fewer than 17 HoW within that two mile radius, representing at least twelve defined faiths. Twelve agreed to the idea, but an unfortunate set of circumstances led to no one attending. It is scheduled again for a weekend this coming spring.

Now, some of these HoW sponsor Scout units, and many found the idea interesting. A few actively said no to my invitation, some never responded. But the ones that said yes all were interested in folks (not just Scouts) knowing about THEIR form of faith and seemed to welcome being compared to others.

 

A Scouts "Duty to God" is not the Scoutleaders business to define. It is, however, the Scouleaders business to encourage. To remind. To stir up. But it is the Scout's (and his family's) business to do the defining. All the Scout leader can do is to listen and nod his head when the Scout talks about it. And they will, if you invite it. Good campfire stuff.

Devout? Wonderful, good, however expressed. Agnostic? Searching? Questioning? Very good, I would not expect any young person to have fully and irrevocably found and developed their faith. I know my kids haven't. Athiest claim? See other Forum threads. I'll not comment here.

I earned G&C from the UMC my Troop was sponsored by, but my family didn't attend. Maybe that was just lipservice, or my academic overachieving, I don't know. Took me more than a few years to figure out where God wanted me. I certainly don't regret the G&C, but I'm not Methodist today.

I would not expect any Scout leader to put a guilt trip on a Scout about his faith or lack thereof.

But reminding, poking, proding, sure. I know my son and daughter have come to expect it. Don't want to dissapoint them.

 

Now, y'all go home to your kith and kin and have a good Christ's Birthday, y'hear?

(This message has been edited by SSScout)

[Novice_Cubmaster]

SSscout, you nailed it!

 

"A Scouts "Duty to God" is not the Scoutleaders business to define. It is, however, the Scouleaders business to encourage. To remind. To stir up. But it is the Scout's (and his family's) business to do the defining. All the Scout leader can do is to listen and nod his head when the Scout talks about it. "

 

Sounds like a great place to end this thread.

 

Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Great Kwanzaa, Joyous Festivus to all.

[scoutldr]

We've done really well with the "airing of grievances". Now who's for some "feats of strength"???

[nrp1488]

I am a police officer and do not always get to church, either, because of schedules but I go when I can. I have been in too many situations where I will be going about my business and suddenly a thought will pop in my head that I should take this route, or why don't I go here instead, or I should change my timing on this. I will invariably come across an accident or find a crime in progress or maybe just stop something before it happens and I don't even know I did it. Was this just chance or guidance from a higher power. I choose to believe in a higher power. Sometimes you have to help yourself stay on the optimistic side but it's always worth the effort.

[mmhardy]

Sarge,

 

Like most of the true thinking folk. I too have questioned what I have called the "childrens teaching" of what is a supreme being. You know..., in your heart..., right now..., what the answer is. Listen to your soul. It guides you every day. Once you accept your own answer to this question. You'll know what to do. As many give you strength...feel free to pass it on.

 

YIS,

 

Mike