Who can get Knots?

[Sarge]

Does anyone know if Assistant Den Leaders are eligible for the Den Leader Award knot?

Or is that something that is restricted to the actual Den Leader only?

[scoutldr]

The first requirement is:

Tenure: Complete one year as a registered Cub Scout den leader

 

Pretty clear. ADL can earn the Cub Scouter award.

[ScoutNut]

Registered Den Leader ONLY.

 

From the Progress record for the Cub Scout Den Leader Award -

 

"Complete one year as a registered Cub Scout den leader."

 

A Cub Scout Den Leader has a different registration code (DL) than an Assistant Den Leader (DA).

 

Also, one of the requirements for the award is -

 

"Have an assistant den leader who meets regularly with your den."

 

How can you "have" an assistant, if you ARE the assistant?

 

[infoscouter]

An assistant den leader can, I believe qualify for the Cub Scouter award. Or, I have often seen two leaders who work well together, "flip-flop" roles in the Wolf & Den years, so each qualifies for the Den Leader award.

[Pack212Scouter]

Only Den Leaders can get the Den Leader award. That said, we usually have all of our Den Leaders registered as Leaders and not assistants. The reasons for this are multiple. First, they get "credit" for the knots. Second, it gives them more of a working together relationship, rather than a working "for" relationship. Third, if the Den Leader misses a meeting, has to move, etc, there is already a replacement in place.

[Buffalo Skipper]

"...we usually have all of our Den Leaders registered as Leaders and not assistants."

I think this really defies the intent of what BSA has in mind for the cub scout program.  Each den should have one den leader.  Otherwise, why have and Assistant Den Leader position in BSA, if you can make them all Den Leaders.  That is also why there is no such position as "Co-Den Leader." 

It is important to have a single leader of a den to whom the boys can look up and recognize as a leader.  If no one is a clear leader, they loose the sense of the leadership organization, which carries through to Boy Scouts (and Venturing).  Does a classroom have multiple primary teachers?  Maybe some teacher assistants, but not several people who are singularly responsible for the same job.. 

Each Pack has one Cubmaster and one or more Assistant Cubmaster(s).  The committee has one Chairman, and multiple Committee Members.  To have several Cubmasters or Committee Chairs would be to invite chaos.  Creating that situation in a den does the same thing.  Let one person take the lead, other contributers need to be assistants. 

 

[Sarge]

 

Seems to be general consensus that it's for the top dog only. Fair enough.

Was a thought that popped into my head when I was looking at the knots

on some of the other Leaders uniforms at our Pack Christmas (oops.

Have to be PC... make that 'Holiday') Party this past weekend.

With the size of our group (14 Wolves) and the more complex

requirements for Bear, we will be splitting next year, so I will

definitely be registered as a Leader.

 

Since I didn't get my training and register as an adult leader until November, will that preclude my from qualifying for the Cub Scouter award down the road?

[Buffalo Skipper]

Sarge,

Depending upon when you divide your den, change your registration and graduate your scouts to Bears will have an impact on your time in position (no double dipping for time requirement for these cub scout awards).

 

With that in mind, let's say that you cross over (graduate) to Bears on June 1 (and your position changes to DL). Leaving 7 months of being registered before your DL time begins. If you look at the Cub Scouter Progress Award form, you will see that there are multiple ranges for the "Dates of Service." After you complete your year as a Den Leader, you will presumably begin working on the Webelos Den Leader Award, and after you complete that year, you can again apply the remaining time toward the Cub Scouter Award.

 

Clear as mud?

[Sarge]

Clear as mud.

With the 3 tier breakdown I've seen [Tigers separate from 'Cubs'(Wolf and Bear) separate from WEBELOS] in books and online, I figured the 'Cub Scouter' Award could only have time applied to from the Wolf/Bear years. But if time from all 5 years counts, then it's all good.

 

So I think I've got it...

One full year as Head Tiger leader for the Tiger Leader knot.

One full year as Head Wolf and/or Bear leader for Den Leader knot.

One full year as Head WEBELOS leader starting in W1 year for the WEBELOS Den Leader knot.

2 total years as DL or ADL, Tigers through W2, for the Cub Scouter knot.

'ADLs for life' are only eligible for Cub Scouter knot.

 

Thank you.(This message has been edited by Sarge)

[AlFansome]

 

Sarge-

Note that the Cub Scouter knot is not exclusively for den leaders. Any registered adult in the pack (Cubmaster, Committee Chair, Committee Member, Pack Trainer, Asst. CM, whatever...) can earn the Cub Scouter knot.

 

From the requirements:

"Complete two years as a registered adult leader in a Cub Scout pack."

 

This means any registered adult leader in any position in the Pack.

[Pack212Scouter]

Buffalo,

 

I can totally understand your argument. On the surface it would make total sense. In spite of this, having multiple Den Leaders in a Den has worked extremely well for us for the last 4 years, running about 20 Dens per year. We have never had an issue with chaos. On the contrary, we have a stronger commitment from our leaders.

 

This is not contrary to BSA's intentions. There is nothing that I am aware of that restricts a Den to only one leader. All that BSA documentation says is that the Den Leader is typically assisted by an Assistant Den Leader. Notice that it says typically. IF you have had issues with such a thing, then I can understand it, but I would bet that it hasn't even been tried in your Pack. All that I can say is that it works very well for us.

[Buffalo Skipper]

Sorry, but I do disagree. I just checked out references on the national site. There are several references to Den Leaders (plural), but only where discussing multiple dens or a collection of leaders from multiple dens.  On this den page, as an example, http://scouting.org/cubscouts/activities/den.aspx, the reference is to a singular Den Leader.  And look in any of the handbooks (Tiger thru Webelos).  In no place does it refer to a den's leaders; always it is a Den Leader (singular).  And again what is the purpose/value/function of an Assistant Den leader, if multiple den leaders are intended to be part of the program.

Likewise, the den is meant to mimic the patrol, in it's size and organziation.  A boy scout troop would have more than one patrol leader about as often as we elect more than one governor.  It should never happen.  And I see nothing in BSA literature which would suggest it is acceptable.

[Pack212Scouter]

Buffalo,

 

You are correct in all of your examples. In no place does it mention multiple Den Leaders. Also, in no place does it forbit it. We agree to disagree.

[Buffalo Skipper]

Fair enough.

 

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