Recommendations to help fix a bad day camp

[Eagle92]

Sctdad,

So how was Camp Charles this weekend?

 

Folks, here's the reason for the questioning of day camp. The local council Scoutdad and I are in calls this one day event "Cub Day Camp at Camp Charles." this is not to be confused with the traditional week long cub Scout Day Camp that you must have NCS certified directors, get inspected, etc. This is just one day activity for the Cubs.

 

Yep offer suggestions for improvement in writting, and be willing to take up some responsibility as you WILL be asked to help out next year.

 

My goal for next year as a TCDL is to keep my mouth shut for at least 1 year so I can enjoy at least 1 year with the oldest. Then I can work staff at these events. But knowing me, that will be difficult

 

Here are a few ideas I recommend. We did some of these with the council's Cub Family campout in 1999, and doubled attendence in 2000.

 

1) Start recruiting new leaders for the event NOW, and no you can't

use my name as I got to play TCDL next year

 

2) Start developing a program NOW with activities, equipment needs,

etc so that you will know what can be done, who needs what

training etc.

 

3)Try and coordinate with all the different CSDC directors and talk

to their staff members about working.

 

4)Get the OA involved. This you can put put my name into the hat to

advise my chapter chief to discuss att eh planning ECM on January

3rd since I've been drafted to be chapter adviser until June when

I switch to a pack. I've found Cubbies love the OA ceremony and

dance teams.

 

Hope this helps.

[SSScout]

SctDad & Eagle92: Thanks for the clarifications. You have alot of good ideas here. I'll offer a couple more to pass on:

1) Rename the event. Call it "Cubarama" or "Cub Jambo" or "Salamagundi" (look it up). Calling it a DCamp may be part of the confusion. As has been mentioned, the term "Day Camp" usually applies to the Summer five day variety.

2) Make sure the advancement/rank earning is secondary to the fun part or automatic in the participation. If your adult leaders can't let it be fun (safety concerns aside), then you have lost one of the great holding factors of Cub Scouting. Include lots of cheers and songs and jumping up and down wherever you can.

3) And for pete's sake; make sure there's a patch to give out at the end of it as the units and Cubs depart!

 

Good Luck! KiS MiF YiS...

[SctDad]

Eagle

 

Thanks for the Help. I guess that I will need to scratch your name from the #1 spot (Just kidding)

 

I e-mailed the young man today. Yes he was a first year director. He has also been on Camp Staff at our Summer Camp. Eagle you may know him. He seemed like he wanted to do well but was just in the lacking of the right resources and Cub Level Knowledge. His heart is in the right place.

 

He is also an OA member. I will have to see if the Lodge would be interested in helping. Don't get me wrong. I think that all of the staff were OA. I saw a lot of people that I saw at Fall Fellowship. A lot of the advisors were there too. Many faces remembered.

 

As someone suggested, I will be recieving some information from Daisey this week about the youth program support.

 

Bob White

Sorry if I came across too strong, but I just wanted everyone to understand that Day Camp is not restricted to week long activities.

 

I want to thank everyone for the help. I am going to talk to the young man this week and see if there is a chance to start planning right now. I am going to look into things like budget and requirements as we want to make sure that everything is right.

 

Keep the suggestion coming.

[Eagle92]

Oh yes I forgot, never, EVER, forget about the patch, especially with Cub Scouts. TRUST ME on that one had an event that the council's sales rep "left the company" and took all her orders with her. Didn't find out until about a week before the event. Although the company rushed the order after resending the info, we did not get them until after the event. NOT A PRETTY SITE.

[SctDad]

Well, Eagle, no patches from this weekend. I was kind of disappointed.

[Bob White]

"Bob White

Sorry if I came across too strong, but I just wanted everyone to understand that Day Camp is not restricted to week long activities.

 

I want to thank everyone for the help. I am going to talk to the young man this week and see if there is a chance to start planning right now. I am going to look into things like budget and requirements as we want to make sure that everything is right."

 

Not a problem, I realized my error immediately after I posted which is why I removed the post.

 

As far as what you plan to do, I would have to ask....WHY?

 

Are you the DE for that diostrict? The District Chairraman? The Cub Activities Chairman for the District? A member of the District Activities Committee?

 

Wanting to see change and being willing to help if called upon is one thing. Imposing your help when uninvited or attempting to change things not within your authority is something else entirely.

 

 

[SctDad]

Bob White

 

You Ask Why???

 

Because I paid for a Day Camp with expectations and they were, for the most part, not fulfilled. I have seen the previous years and was disappointed. Just as many other parents and leaders. So If one sees something that he can help with to improve the program, than why should he/she sit on the sidelines and just complain. Just like Adamsdwa said, the first to complain are usually the last to volunteer. I think that this is the mentality of too many in scouting and there needs to be something that is done, and if I can provide some help some where, then hopefully it will make next years a little better. And in the process may return the 'Outing to Scouting.'

[shortridge]

BobWhite wrote: "Are you the DE for that diostrict? The District Chairraman? The Cub Activities Chairman for the District? A member of the District Activities Committee?

"Wanting to see change and being willing to help if called upon is one thing. Imposing your help when uninvited or attempting to change things not within your authority is something else entirely."

 

So only people already "in the club" are allowed to offer critiques? If you're not a member, you can't volunteer? Sorry, but that's just a silly way to think about it.

 

It sounds pretty clear like the district or council activities people need some more help. In fact, the camp director said as much. That's what SctDad seems to be offering. Kudos to him.

[Bob White]

You go into a McDonalds as a customer and have a bad meal. You have some things you can do. You can complain to the manager. You can write a letter to the owner and explain what happened and make some suggestions. Or you can choose not to be a customer.

 

BUT...as a customer you have no authority to make job assignments, hire or fire, train, adjust the budget, make buying decisions, alter suppliers, plan their marketing etc. You are the customer with the rights and the priveledges of the customer, BUT NOT with the rights and the priviledges of management.

 

Do not confuse the role of volunteer with a specifc chartering organization as the same as the role of a district/council volunteer. They are not the same.

 

Unless SctDad is the CR he has no authority in District activities beyond that of a customer.

 

Before SctDad does anything beyond sharing his evaluation and suggestions to those in a position to make changes, he will first need to be in one of those positions. Otherwise he is likely both wasting his time and interfering in functions he has no capacity in.

 

If he wants to run the McDonalds he will need to become one of the managers of McDonalds.

[Eagle92]

BW,

Back in the day when I attended PDL-1, I was taught that you listen to your volunteers on how to improve program since they are closest to our customer base: the youth. I was also taught that if you have a volunteer who has ideas on improving the program, ask them to assist with running the program. It appears that Sctdad is asking for advice to present to the powers that be to improve the event. Knowing him, he also is willing to help with the event to make it the best possible for the boys.

 

Getting back to the ideas I suggested on event improvement, those came from my experiences as both the pro in charge of the CS event (1999) and a volunteer on the committee running the same event (2000), so most of my advice is admisnistrtive. Another key is PROMOTION PROMOTION PROMOTION. I had ad in the council newsletter (when we had one) for the event for 4 months. In my district at least I promoted the event at every RT for 4 months prior to the event, at at every BnG banquet I did an FOS presentation at. Promotion, promotion, promotion.

[Bob White]

Eagle 92

 

I do not disagree that it is important to listen to feedback, but you must know that not all feedback is actionable. And it is the responsibility of those charged with the activity at the council and district level to make those determinations, not a unit volunteer.

 

Something they may not have taught ad PDL is that if you try and press every person who has feedback into service then people are going to stop giving you feedback.

 

I would hope that a Scoutmaster would give feedback on Summercamp. Does that mean you are going to try and put him or her to work on staff? What about their responsibilities as Scoutmaster???

Putting everyone who gives a suggestion to work is not always feasable nor is it the best place for that person to be.

 

Just because a person thinks they know a strike when they see one does not automatically make them a good candate to be a pitcher or an umpire sometimes they are best left as a fan.

 

I think we agree that if SctDad wants to help he should communicate his evaluation to those responsible and help where asked if he can. But to take it upon himself to do the things he is suggesting is simply not appropriate. It is not within his authority or responsibility. At this point in time he is the customer and not the manager.

[SctDad]

So if I am understanding BW right, the only people that are allowed/charged with helping out a Cub Scout Day Camp are member sof the District Committee. No one else. I guess that means the members of the OA, (who are part of a national honor society of campers, meant to help other scouts) need to also sign up for the District committee to help out with a Day Camp.

 

One other thing. This Day Camp was not a district event. This was a Council event. So I guess those on the district committee are not meant to help with this. Only those who are on the council committee. Boy, that eliminates a lot of the younger, more energetic scouters. Guess Day Camps are Doomed

 

Around here, Council and Districts accept help from those who step up.(This message has been edited by SctDad)

[Bob White]

No SctDad you have completed avoided my point.

 

I did not say you could not help. I said first make sure the help that YOU want to provide is the help that is wanted by those responsible for managing the event.

 

The mere fact that you saw some things that YOU would like to change does not mean that you can forge ahead and make those changes. I will ask again, what position on the distrcut do you currently hold or what work on the Day Camp have you been asked to do at this point?

 

You want to counsel the camp director and yet you have no idea if he will be the camp director next time or of what instructions his superiors want himn to follow.

 

You want to get the palnning started but who asked you to help plan the activity so far?

 

At this point in time you are a customer, and until you are in managenment your responsibility is feedback, and your authority is nill.

 

I applaud your enthusiasm but you lack direction and permission at the moment.

[Eamonn]

Feedback is indeed a gift.

Finding out what worked and what didn't is important to us all in just about everything that we do.

Not all feedback has to be bad and not all feedback has to be good. It does have to be true.

I made a very bad selection when I selected the QM for the WB course I directed. The food for the first weekend was not very good.

While of course, being as I was there and eating the same food as the participants. I was aware that we had a problem.

As were the Staff.

The PLC brought this up at their meeting.

I of course never expected and would never have allowed the participants to take over the food service end of things.

They after all were there for the training.

All the Staff had their own jobs and roles that they were doing and needed doing.

I did of course have a chat with the QM and made him aware that a lot of people were not happy. He got the message and the food for the second part of the course was a vast improvement.

Doing things as they should be done and following the correct methods of communication does a rule: Avoid any hard or hurt feelings and does tend to yield a better end result.

Take this Cub Scout Event.

I kinda think that just about everyone is aware that it wasn't as good as maybe it might have been.

I'll bet that the poor guy in charge really knows it!

Telling him, the DE and anyone who will listen might help things improve next year.

But having the COR attend the District Committee Meeting will ensure that the right people do really know and there will be a record of what was said and what action will be taken to make the improvements needed.

I of course am saddened that some of our younger members might feel short changed. But sad as I might be,I also know that I'm not in a position too do anything that might result in making the needed improvements.

Each of us has a position that we have been selected for and undertaken. If I'm the CM for a Pack that is my position. The Cub Scouts in the Pack I serve should always come first. I really can't serve them as I should if I'm busy wearing a big stack of other hats.

We do learn from our past mistakes, feedback helps.

You bet your little cotton socks that the WB course directors who followed me paid a lot more attention to what the QM was doing that I had done!

Eamonn.

[shortridge]

BobWhite,

 

The person responsible for managing the event (the camp director) said he needed help. SctDad is offering help, not trying to take over the program.

 

I get your broader point, but those concerns seem to be null and void in this case.