Babysitting at the meeting place

[JAYMEDINC]

We meet at a church and we have a babysitting room. A teen daughter of one of the Den Leaders watches the siblings there, while we have our Cub Scout Meetings. She has very little control over some of the kids and they wander around the church.

 

This seems like a big can of worms for me, when I take over as Cubmaster in May. I'd like to plant the seed now, to get it fixed, before I am the Cubmaster. That way it will be much easier to enforce, when I take over. What are the BSA rules that apply to babysitting siblings at the events?

[SctDad]

Well it seems like you have a great thing for busy parents who are busy or are single parents.

 

Couple of questions come to mind. Is this babysitter a trained babysitter through whoever trains. Are there too many kids for her to watch, and is that the reason why they are running the halls.

 

I would tell the parents and babysitter if there continues to be issues with the kids, then you may have to cancel the program.

 

Don't get me wrong, having a young lady to watch the siblings is a great thing. Maybe she needs some help. See if there are other parents or siblings that want to help. I know that this may be a problem, but try to entice other siblings to help by having a small fee for the baby sitting. Say maybe $2 per child. That is not a lot. Maybe thhis will help the sibling try to keep a better control of things. Or maybe you can have the parents who are using the babysitter to take turns helping her out.

 

If there is still no cooperation, then I would tell the parents that are using it that the service might stop if things keep getting out of control. Talk with you CC and COR. THey may have started this.

[Bob White]

"What are the BSA rules that apply to babysitting siblings at the events?"

 

There are none and for good reason. the children are not members and so they, the girl, the girls parents, and likely the CO, are not covered by the unit or BSA accident insurance or liability protection for such a service.

 

Does the property owner know that an unlicensed and uninsured babysitting service is being operated on their property?

 

Should a child in the care of the babysitter become injured or should any property damage be done there could be civil and possibly criminal charges leveled against the baby sitter, her parents, the unit, the chartering organization, the property owner (if different form the CO). Any lawyer would have a field day with the number of people who have exposed themselves to liability in this situation.

 

The BSA would want nothing to do with such exposure and so do not expect them to encourage it by creating rules for it.

 

Parents are responsible for their own children at scouting events when families are present.

 

[JAYMEDINC]

Yes, in my opinion this babysitter is overwhelmed with kids. Although she does have some help from another teen, I believe. Not sure if they are trained. I will have to find out.

 

The reason we have too many kids, isn't because they are getting dropped off. It is because we have approximately 26 Cubs and 14 leaders. Nearly all the parents are registered leaders in some aspect, which is a great thing. But the siblings just run around and have a good ol' time while the parents are busy with the meetings and tending to the business end of things.

 

I must admit, my daughter is a major reason for this being brought up. My wife is a nursing student at night time, and is never there. I am the Asst. Tiger Den Leader and can't leave my Tiger. Well, my wife got out of school early and stopped by and was horrified that my daughter was just playing with her friends outside of the baby-sitting room. She talked with me about it and I recommended she bring this up to the Committee Chair and the mother of the babysitter. Both of whom are her friends and fellow board members in a non-profit homeschooling board, so they have a good relationship. (all these cubs and siblings are homeschooled)

 

Now my daughter has been instructed by her mother and myself, to follow the guidelines that we are enforcing for her. But I want it to be enforced for all the kids. To make it easier on my daughter, the babysitter and anyone who could get in trouble or hurt because of an unsupervised child.

[JAYMEDINC]

The Chartered Organization is the homeschool group that started the Pack about 6 years ago. And the Pack has just started becoming a formal organization, no longer flying by the seat of it's pants. Thanks to the new Commitee Chair (who is leaving at the end of the year). So things are growing and the leaders have more interest in getting things done right.

 

I believe this homeschool group is affiliated with the church in some manner. These are things that I will also have to find out in more detail.

[ScoutNut]

It sounds like yours is one of those Packs that meet all together every week with perhaps one week called a Pack meeting.

 

It also sounds like you have some adults there not really doing anything.

 

The only den where every Scout MUST have a parent present is Tiger. For Wolf thru Webelos, you should have at least a den leader, and preferably an asst den leader as well, but not really necessary if the den is very small and there are other adults around. In Webelos you might also have an additional adult there as an Activity Badge Counselor.

 

How old is the teenage sitter? A 13 year old is much different from a 17 year old in terms of how much she can handle. If you are having all the siblings there from the entire Pack every week, than who ever is the sitter simply can not do it alone. You should have at LEAST 2 or better 3 there every week. With the extra parents there you should also assign one of them the task of overseeing the sibling area.

 

Your only other option is to tell the parents to keep their siblings with them at all times. This can work if the parents bring things with them to keep their non-scout kids busy at a nearby table.

 

At monthly Pack meetings there should be no need for sitters as the siblings should be included in the activities.

 

 

[Bob White]

You could put 2 den leaders in the room and neither the BSA accident insurance or liability protection would extend to protect either the leaders or the children in case of an injury.

 

 

 

 

[JAYMEDINC]

We meet the first and third Monday of the month, year round. The first Monday is the pack meeting, but after the awards and announcements, the Cubs go to their respective Dens. Just like the other Monday that they come in.

 

Yes, we are talking about 13 year old sitters, not 17. The mother of the main sitter is a registered leader on the committee. She does supervise the babysitting, but she can't be there at all times. And like has been posted, non of the people in that room are covered by BSA insurance.

 

I think after my wife brought up the issue this week, maybe things will happen differently in the near future. Only time will tell.

 

We are new to Cub Scouts this year and I really have been clueless about what goes on outside the Tiger Den, since I can't ever leave. I just started attending Pack committe & district meetings last month. Although, I have gone to all the training for Tiger Den Leader & Cubmaster. However I didn't recall anything ever being mentioned about this situation and I wasn't aware there was a problem, so I never asked. Until now.

[kraut-60]

JAYMEDINC: I agree with what you said in the start of this thread..."a real can of worms" especially with regard to these small children wandering around the church. Our Boy Scout troops Chartered Organization is very adamant about our scouts being anywhere in the building they are not supposed to be, much less younger siblings who can really get into places that may endanger them...God forbid one of them would manage to wander into the boiler room...I dont want to imagine what a possible outcome would be.

 

I may take flak for this, but I would ask these folks to keep the younger siblings at home. Each year after new Scouts cross over, I have at least one parent who wants their Scouts younger sibling to tag along...as a parent I can see wher they are coming from...as the SM, I firmly remind them that Boy Scout meetings, activities and outings are for the Boy Scouts.

 

Taking into account you are stepping up to the Cubmaster position, you may ask to meet with the parents of the Pack and explain why the distraction of babysitting small children will take away from what they are there for...delivering the Cub Scout program to their Cub Scouts. The matter of liability has been mentioned here also...I would keep the little ones out of the meetings, as they distract too much from the program.

[DeanRx]

Kraut - Here is your 1st bit of flak...

 

Comparing a CS Pack to how you run a BS Troop is apples and oranges.

 

Cub Scouting is all about FAMILY. It is ADULT led.

Boy Scouting is all about PATROLS. It is YOUTH led with adult supervision.

 

To suggest that some (if not all) these families leave the yougner siblings at home is to suggest that some families (and Cub Scouts) will not be able to participate.

 

I am a CM with roughly 18 registered adults in a pack with 53 Cub Scouts (at last count). It can be done - here's how...

 

1) Include the younger siblings in the pack activities when possible.

2) Recruit a couple of adults (usually a couple moms) to sit w/ the younger siblings at the meeting and supervise them.

3) Have alternate activities for the younger sibs (i.e. we ALWAYS have coloring pages and crayons at the ready)

4) The sibs are in the same room as the parents, so if an issue starts, a parent can take over and remove the younger sibling / deal with the issue.... (i.e. the parent is always in control / responsible for the younger sibling)

 

When we have Pack meetings, ALL scouts sit with their Dens (to include Tigers). The only adults sitting with them are the DL and ADL. We have the younger siblings sit together (in their own "den") and do their activities - or with their parents. When we sing a song, they sing w/ us. If we do a skit, they watch / participate. We have a "sibling" category in our space derby, raingutter regatta, and pinewood derby (also a super-unlimited class in pinewood for the dads). Sometimes the younger siblings cars run better than the scouts!

 

Another example: We had a costume review (walk across the stage in your Halloween costume and say who you were) at the October meeting... we published and encouraged ALL kids, scouts and sibs to take part. We had a 2 y/o in costume that paraded across w/ his Cub Scout brother.

 

Instead of segregating and potentially running into trouble with a well-meaning, but overworked / undertrained / understaffed teenage babysitter, INCLUDE the siblings and families in the activities.

 

Cubbies is about the family. Make it a warm and welcoming place for everyone. At the same time, keep sibling kiddos under the direction of their parents. BSA is not responsible for them, nor should they be.

 

I make an announcement at the start of every meeting asking that if a younger sibling is causing a disturbance, please take them out of the hall until they calm down so as to not interrupt the meeting...

 

Guess what - never had to ask a parent to step out with a kid. I have stopped a meeting and asked a DAD to take his cell conversation out in the hall. I have stopped a meeting and almost polietly asked two "Chatty Cathy" moms (who could be heard in the back of the room) to take their conversation outside.

 

Set the expectation and then involve them as much as possible. It will be a non-issue in no time.

 

Best of luck.

 

Dean

[IM_Kathy]

if having babysitting is a necessity I would suggest more babysitters and older. Have you considered contacting one of the older girl scout troops? I have a group of 9th grade girl scouts and they are always looking for fundraising opportunities and setting up a donation jar would be something I'm sure would bring them in a bit each month to help with their campouts and trips and with them doing it as a fundraiser would include an adult or two in attendance as well. The older girls have learned it is better to come preparred with games and other activities rather than just sitting back and watching chaos!

 

if it's not a necessity then I'd say put an end to it because with what you say is going on you're just asking for trouble - either child getting injured or damange to the building that could result in losing your charter

[Bob White]

As a former Cubmaster I agree with DeanRx.

[infoscouter]

It sounds like it would be helpful for the baby sitters to have something structured to do with the siblings. If you have that many registered leaders, one or two of them could be assigned to plan activities for the siblings. Simple games and crafts, a snack and maybe an age appropriate video should be enough to fill the time period of the den meetings.

 

And on the evening of the pack meeting, they absolutely should be included.

[infoscouter]

Oops, I forgot. The young lady also needs some guidelines and a code of conduct for the sibs, *which their parents will enforce*. The pack committee should present the parents who benefit from the babysitting with guidelines for the service, which they must agree to, in order to participate. These parents need to set the rules with the sibs before they arrive - "You have to stay in the nursery - no running in the halls".

 

I would also consider getting an adult "hall monitor" whose job (perhaps rotating through various parents), would be to check for stray siblings or Scouts. This person could also watch to make sure the kids are respecting the church property, look out for strangers entering the church, etc.

[Bob White]

The same reason the BSA doesn't give the Pack rules for running a babysitting services is the same reason the pack should not do it either. It ios not a part of the Cub Scout program, it is not a function of the pack, It is not covered by BSA insurance unlike the pack program activities.

 

By instructing the NON-Registered leader you are assuming the responsibility and liability for that service and for her, and if a child gets hurt you as the adult could be held personally liable.

 

Youare there as a scout leader to lead the scouting program. Non-member youths are the responsibilty of their parents and the pack should never assume that responsibility ion the parents place.

 

In ddition if a child were to be injured or worse, the property owner could be held liable, and unless you had their permission to run a baby sitting service they are not going like being drawn into this situation and so other legal nightmares could come your way.

 

Lead a Scouting program, not a babysitting service for non-members.

 

If the problem is due to having multiple dens meeting the same time and place other than at the pack meeting, as has been suggested, then your best solution is to fix your program. Dens are designed to meet individually, not as a cluster (except at the monthly pack meeting).