AnniePoo Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 I'd been told when I took Outdoor Leader Training for Webelos Leaders last year that it was required in order to take a Webelos den on an overnight camping trip. Then, this weekend, I was told that it was only highly recommended (i.e. Webelos leaders "should" take the training), but that BALOO was required. Is this correct, and Webelos den overnight camping falls under the description of "pack overnight camping"? About half of the people at this weekend's training session had been told that OLSWL (i.e "OWL") training was required. I've taken both, so I wasn't in violation when I took our Webelos camping all summer. However, since I'll be taking over our district Cub training position shortly, I need to know the actual wording in the regs. Can someone give me the real scoop on this? Also, I'd appreciate links to good websites for trainers. Thanks!! Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabob Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 My understanding is that OLS for Webelos leaders is strongly recommended but NOT required. BALOO, while certainly a very good idea too, applies to PACK camping (not webelos den camping). Personally my preference would be for a WDL to have both OLS-W and BALOO training and perhaps they ought to be mandatory, but at the moment my understanding is that they are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 http://scouting.org/CubScouts/Leaders.aspx What BSA has to say about BALOO - "This training is required for any adult who is in charge of planning a pack campout." What BSA has to say about Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders - "Webelos den leaders should attend this training before conducting Webelos overnight camping with the boys and parents of the den." Notice BSA does NOT state that OLSWL is required. Pack campouts are VERY different from den campouts. BALOO is REQUIRED for PACK campouts, only. OLSWL is recommended, but NOT REQUIRED by BSA National for Webelos DEN campouts. Councils can, and do, make other, stricter requirements for their units. Your Council might require BALOO, and/or OLSWL, for Webelos Den campouts. As District Cub Scout Training Chair, your best bet would be to order the newest syllabus for each Cub Scout Training (watch out for the DVD with the new CS Leader Specific Training, it does not work well). Read them, follow them, and make sure your training staff follows them and does not add unconfirmed "requirements", or delete things from them. Talk to your Council Training Chair, the DE, and the Council Staff Training Adviser to find out if your council has any requirements over and above those from National. Have you taken the Trainer's Development Conference yet? I would recommend taking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Skipper Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Our council enforces a policy in which a BALOO trained individual must be on the Tour Permit of any Cub Scout level overnight outing, whether pack or webelos den. Having taught both BALOO and OWL, it is what we deliver at the classes. I pitch BALOO as the "administration of Cub Scout camping" for all Cub Scout leaders and OWL as the "hands on" training for Webelos leaders. In our district, we offer BALOO 2x a year and OWL once annually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnniePoo Posted October 20, 2008 Author Share Posted October 20, 2008 Thanks for the input. I'll talk to our district trainers to clarify that BALOO-trained leaders for Webelos campouts is an additional district requirement. I just want to make sure I don't tell anyone something that is incorrect, and there is obvious confusion in our district about this. "watch out for the DVD with the new CS Leader Specific Training, it does not work well". No kidding. I tried to look through it yesterday, and it's not helpful at all. What I need is a CD with a simple power-point presentation of the material in the new handbook. Is this available? "Have you taken the Trainer's Development Conference yet?" There is one scheduled for March, and I'm planning on taking it. Thanks, Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottteng Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Webelos leader outdoor is required for said leader to earn their webelos leader knot. The way this course is being run at present is in combination with IOLS the boy scout version of same and affords the webelos leader opportunities to develop relationships with ASM and SM's of troops that actually attend training. All in all it is a worthwhile training session. Our local rule is that your BALOO is good until the next time our district offers the Webelos leader outdoor after that you are toast. Most webelos would be better off piggybacking camping on a troop they are considering joining sometimes boys are way different on a trip than in a meeting. Don't camp the cubs too much or they get burned out on it and miss all the fun of boy scouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnniePoo Posted October 21, 2008 Author Share Posted October 21, 2008 We camp the Webelos once a month, at a different location each time (state parks mostly). This seems just about right, and if I camp in between with my family once a month, then I get to camp every other weekend!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghermanno Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 AnniePoo, You stated:"We camp the Webelos once a month, at a different location each time (state parks mostly). This seems just about right, and if I camp in between with my family once a month, then I get to camp every other weekend!!!" Does your Boy Scout Troop camp every other weekend? If not, what are the boys looking forward to? I thought the "norm" would be once a quarter if possible. Camping every month is beyond Webelos level and definately into BS area. I am sure the boys love it but it takes away from the boy scout camping experience in my opinion if the boy does it ALL the time while a Webelos. What if the BS Troop schedules a hike instead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pack212Scouter Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 As an additional note. Beginning in January, the online Weather Hazard training is required for anyone conducting a camping trip. More specifically, at least one person listed on the Trip Permit must have the training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabob Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Pack212, that's not a bad idea either but please note that if a Tour Permit is the trigger then that doesn't necessarily mean anybody who camps must have completed this training. In my council, one needs a tour permit only when traveling out of council. Many units (cubs especially) rarely or never go that far away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACK15NISSAN Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 We had a problem with our OWL training in my district. Both OWL and BALOO are held only once a year, OWL had to be postponed due to the "gas shortage" and such a long drive to council camp. They rescheduled it for November and it is closer, however it is on the same day as BALOO. When I called council and spoke to the training chair they said it was the only date they could get and not to worry because if I took OWL I could use it as BALOO for all camping purposes. So the next time I fill out a camping form not only do I have the OWL that I should have but I have the BALOO that I have to have, at least according to my council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pack212Scouter Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 You have a good point Lisa. When you need a trip permit varies greatly from Council to Council. Ours unfortunately has decided that they want one ANY time the Pack or a Den meets off-site. I slightly misspoke also. It is only required on the trip permit for someone on the trip to have taken the training, not one of the leaders. Although the training is very basic, it has some good information. Our Pack has decided to require all leaders who may lead outdoor hiking or camping trips to have this training. Nissan, In our Council they now conduct what is refered to as WeBALOO training. It is combined Webelos Outdoor and BALOO. Both are taught over two days and one night. Your training Chair either misspoke or is mistaken. While they are similar OWL and BALOO teach two different things and are not interchangable. OWL is designed to teach a Webelos leader how to lead a den in the outdoors and on program advancements. BALOO is designed to teach a leader how to conduct a Pack level camping program. BSA states that BALOO, not BALOO or OWL, is required for Pack campouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottteng Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 National does not recommend combining Baloo with any other course They do recommend and have a syllabus for combined Webelos leader outdoor and IOLS. Baloo is needed for all pack outings whether they involve camping or not. Webelos leader outdoor and IOLS are camping specific and usually held in a camp setting one night overnight for Webelos leaders and two nights for the boy scout leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 No, you do not need a BALOO trained leader for all Pack outings. There is nothing in the training that pertains to visiting a Hockey game, going to a museum, going on a bike ride, going to a park and flying kites, etc. B-asic A-dult O-utdoor O-orientation is VERY definitely the first step in the BSA CAMPING training program and it's goal is to give the Cub Scout volunteer increased confidence in his/her outdoor ability, and the willingness to plan a successful Pack overnight camping experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pack212Scouter Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 ScoutNut is correct. BALOO is only required for Pack overnights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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