new 5th grade Webelos

[MOMSCOUT24-7]

We have two new Webelos joining our pack. They are brothers, one in 4th and one in 5th. They are new to the area and will not be able to start till mid Oct.

They are both new to scouts, need Bobcat ect.

Our pack is unsure where to put the 5th grader. Since he needs to start where the 4th grade den is, with fitness and citizen some say put him there.

Some say put him in with the 5th graders because of age and have him bridge with them in Feb. He will not have enough time to complete Arrow of light if we do that.

He just turned 10, so he could start right up with a Boy Scout troop.

But mom wants them in cub scouts.

Opinions?

 

[jtswestark]

Im a few years removed from Cub Scouts, but I would put him with like age/grade Scouts. If he doesnt earn AoL, thats the way it goes - you cant cram down his throat all the years hes missed into a few months. Mom & the boy need to understand that, and most reasonable folks will. When they cross over to BS theyre all fresh anyways and by that time he will hopefully have built friendships from school that will go with him into the Troop.

 

Not earning the AoL isn't all that big of a deal - I decided I didn't want to earn it but that didn't stop me from earning my Eagle at 14.

 

Jack

[scottteng]

Observe them if they are close by all means put them together that will make a hard transition easier and allow them to work together towards advancement. If they are the oil and water boys then this is the perfect opportunity to separate them for the good of all.

[ElyriaLeader]

Even starting mid Oct. the 5th grader could earn his Webelos badge, in fact I know an adult who started cubs as a Webelo II and got his arrow of light finished, depending on when the pack does their crossover he could possibly even finish the AOL time requirement. Let the older boy stay in his age group.

[Buffalo Skipper]

Being 10 years old does not qualify him for boy scouts. In fact, the youngest he can join is 10 1/2 because before the age of 11, he must earn the Arrow of Light (or complete the 5th grade) and 10 1/2 is the youngest the AoL can be earned.

 

It is possible for him to finish his Arrow of Light, but his schedule will be different from the other boys in his den, and it will take the cooperation of multiple den leaders. First, he will need to earn his Bobcat, and that can be done with the help of the boys who have already done that. If he is diligent, he can earn his Webelos by mid-January (3 months) and the AoL will take another 3 months. Does your Council run a Webelos Weekend campout or other Webelos midway or rally? That would be a great time to work on some achievement pins.

 

All this will make him AoL eligible by, at the earliest, mid-April. But cross him to his chosen troop at that time, with all the ceremony you would othewise afford your Webelos (at B&G, or whenever your Webs join a troop).

 

My wife has a Webelos 2 den, with 4 new scouts working toward AoL. The den leader of the other W2 den decided to "not accept" any new scouts this year and cross in November. Rather than abandon these boys, we realized that we can barely make our B&G from their joining date in 6 months, so we are working to see that every boy is "accommodated" and that no one is dropped or left behind. All the parents are very cooperative and so far, they are on schedule.

[gcan]

This is just my opinion... I put our new Web 2 with my Web 1's.

Now, I'm the ADL for my sons' Web 2's, and the DL for the Web 1's, and we often meet together. The boy is learning and earning right along with the other new Webelos kids, but he will cross over with the 5th graders.

 

If you can give him plenty of exposure to the Web 2's he'll cross with, then keep him with the other new kids. It'll make the DL's life soooo much easier, lol. No, he won't earn AOL, but he will earn his Weblos badge and cross over at the 'age appropriate' time. I certainly wouldn't hold him back from crossing over, regardless of which den you put him in.

 

If he's with the Web 2's you will be doing an awful lot of backtracking and playing 'catch up'. With the Web 1's, when they are working on a non'essential' badge, you can have him in with the 2's. Unless his 'rents are really gung-ho and willing to take him to BOTH meetings, lol. Of course, this would require an awful lot of communication and flexibility on both DL's parts, so make sure they can do it first!

 

I guess in your case I'd ask the DL's FIRST if one or the other would be willing to do the extra or communicate with the other, then ask the parents if they want den A, Den B, or a combination of the two. But like someone said, a lot does depend on the relationship between the brothers, the best thing you could do for everyone might be to split them up!

[ScoutNut]

The joining requirements for Boy Scouts are -

 

"completed the fifth grade AND is at least 10 years old - OR is age 11 - OR has earned the

Arrow of Light Award AND is at least 10 years old, but has not reached age 18."

 

The 5th grader has until the end of the 5th grade to work toward Webelos and AOL - If HE wishes.

 

Talk to the boy and his parents.

[GKlose]

My youngest turned 10 moments after starting 4th grade (he became a Bear Cub in the spring). I think he is losing interest in Cub Scouts (his older brother just moved on to a scout troop in spring), but his age sits right that he can finish AoL by this coming spring and transition.

 

Mom is his den leader, and all Webelos dens in this pack are lightly loaded, so they're going to do a combination of events together. But my son will be attending some Webelos I events and some Webelos II events in order to get everything done efficiently. One month after starting, he's completed a couple of activity badges, including Outdoorsman, and attended the council's "Webelos Arrow of Light Weekend" which covered a few other items (extra overnight with den, visit a scout camp, etc). The Webelos I den is concentrating on Fitness and Citizenship out of the gate, while the Webelos II den is concentrating on Readyman. It's not really all that hard to pull together -- it just takes some focus.

 

A few weekends ago, at a training event, I talked to a mom that had run a Webelos den a few years prior. She didn't have enough for two dens, so she chose activities for both to do (for example, in the first year, they did Outdoorsman and Readyman, and then eventually moved on to Fitness and Citizenship, and then filled in from there). It just takes a little planning.

[printman31]

My son is 10 & in a Weblos 1 den. He's basicly 1 year behind due to him starting school late because of his birthday. I don't understand how a 10 year old can be just a Bear. When they should be either a weblos 1 or weblos 2. Anyhow a cub scout summer camp is a nice way to earn a few weblos badges. My son earned naturalist, outdoorsman, forester & traveler along with numerous belt loops & pins. He didn't earn traveler @ the camp but if you work with your son on the route & travel plans to & from the camp. They will earn traveler also.

[ElyriaLeader]

GKlose, as a 4th grader your son is a webelos I, not a bear

[wallyn]

A new 5th grader joining in October or even November may still earn AoL. You can do a second crossover ceromony in May or June.

 

Our webelos last year needed a little bit more time so we did ours late in the year. Just inform the parent that some of the webelo IIs will be crossing over in February.

[Gold Winger]

"But cross him to his chosen troop at that time, with all the ceremony you would othewise afford your Webelos (at B&G, or whenever your Webs join a troop)."

 

Would he be able to cross over in April without the AOL if he isn't 11 yet? Isn't it AOL & 10.5, 11 or 6th grade?

 

I'd put him with the other 5th graders and let him (and mom) know what the rules are regarding cross over.

 

Nothing says that he has to cross in February, March or whenever with the other boys. If earning AOL is important to him, he can stick around with another den until June.

[GKlose]

Sorry -- I just realized my post from a few weeks ago wasn't clear, and ElyriaLeader caught the problem.

 

My son, at 9, in 3rd grade, finished his Bear badge this last spring. This fall, as a fourth grader, he turned 10 shortly after school started. He is in a Webelos I den. However, his age falls such that he could be 10-1/2 and finish AoL, and transition this year. Since he's been losing interest in cub scouts, he has agreed that he wants to finish AoL quickly (and he's actually fairly far along, given the last two months of work he's done). The Webelos I and Webelos II dens in this particular pack have been meeting at the same time, with different leaders, and combining on some activities. Otherwise, they have different agendas.

 

With some focus, and some activities with both Webelos I and II dens, I think it is fairly straightforward (not necessarily easy) for a Webelos to start from Bobcat and finish AoL within 6 months.

 

(but not if they continually miss den activities, which I've seen time and time again)

 

Guy

[fleetfootedfox]

Interesting post. People make such a big deal about AoL that it makes it appear like something very difficult and time-consuming to do. It is a big deal because it is the culmination of years of cub scouting, not so much because it is hard to attain for a boy who wants to do it. Several boys in my son's den did all 20 webelos pins in 1 1/2 years, and the AoL requires only 8.

 

However, they got a lot of those pins at summer camps, and a boy starting in 5th grade won't have a summer camp before he would like to cross over into boy scouts. Also, for AoL, you have to go overnight camping with other Webelos, but if you're getting into winter there aren't likely to be any Webelos camp-outs until after blue/gold, which is when the crossover often happens.

 

Regarding a 4th grader crossing over because he happens to turn 10 1/2 before the end of the school year, I would not recommend it for most boys. If you have ever gone camping with Webelos, you will know why. They have a harder time being away from mom & dad, are more likely to have issues with camp food, fear of creepy crawlies in the tents, etc. Consequently, camping with Webelos is a lot of work, and the troop's Scoutmaster is not likely to like having a 4th grader dumped on him for a week unless the boy's dad is there.