frustrated with our CC...

[gcan]

We have a great group of committee members, most of whom are leaders (small pack). But our committee chair seems to have a need to control EVERYthing. Most of the time things turn out just fine (they have turned out just fine when the rest of us do things too). Every so often there have been minor issues with the CC's idea that other members' suggestions would have alleviated, but nothing earth shattering.

 

But the rest of the committee (and some of the parents) are starting to get really annoyed at constantly being told what to do. The general consensus is that we are all adults, not 2nd graders.

 

The latest straw was the CC overriding the Popcorn Kernal. Now the P.K. is ready to quit (she's also a DL) because she feels that she isn't trusted, unappriciated, ect.

 

I personally think that this woman is a great CC. She is organized, does what she says she will, is able to keep it all together. But yes, she DOES have this control issue going on, and 1/2 the committee wants her removed. We have a meeting coming up.

I want to DEMOCRATICALLY say that she should stay, BUT she needs to stop being so daggone bossy. if an adult that has always come thru before says they will do something, LET them.

 

I'm not looking for a detailed list of the CC's duties, because all of us do a little bit 'o something 'extra', or not our job, whatever. And she definatly does go over and above in areas we need her too.

But HOW does one tell an aquaintance that they are treating eveyone else like little kids??????

[Bob White]

Shat you need is the Cub Scout Leader Book, it is the adult manual for all positions of a Cub Pack. Turn your attention to chapter 23 where it explains the responsibilities fo each adult position in the Pack.

 

You will note that it states in the job description of the Pack Committee Chairman "To Supervise the Pack Committee by:

1) Calling and presiding at pack leaders' meetings

2) Assigning duties to committee members.

3) Planning the pack charter review, round-up, and reregistration.

4) approving all bills before payment by the pack treasuruer."

 

You say he is telling people what to do? that can mean many things. But you will find a list of duties for every positionand if the cc is making sure that those things are done, then she is doing her job.

 

You say half the committee thinks she is doing fine and the other half doesn't. Well all you need to do is find out which half is right. A good place to start would be the training and resources of the BSA.

 

Every leader in the pack should know their job, and it would help if they all new the same game. If everyone know and followed the Cub program according to the BSA trainingand materials then you would have a level playing field to be able to determine what was right or wrong.

 

Good Luck.

 

[gcan]

thanks, BW, I will definatly have that with us at the meeting. And let me clarify the "hlaf the committee"- everyone but her hubby and her (and I'm still on the fence) want her gone.

I suppose it's not WHAT she's doing so much as HOW she's doing it! It all looks good on paper, but when you talk to adults like you talk to your kids, you are going to create hard feelings!

 

The main problem is that it goes beyond divviing up jobs. If it was just, "OK, you handle this" then thats' fine. This is actually what was said to me last week regarding bringing the $$ for a show-n-sell: "What you need to do is write a check out to CASH, take it to the bank and ask for the change we will need, a few dollars in quarters, I think $25 in ones..." Besides that being a really convoluted way to make a withdrawl, I'm thinking that maybe I'm capable of taking money out of the bank without precise instructions. I am the treasurer, after all. AND we've been selling popcorn for 4 years now, we managed to get by without her help every other year...

 

We did a float for a parade... she didn't like the way we've been doing it for 4 years, so she did it her way. it fell apart. She wouldn't let the boys help with a lot of it because she had to "do it right". So they got bored and ran around outside playing tag. And she called them all in and hollered at them. Frankly, the rest of us were fine with them playing tag in the empty, lit parking lot, but we didn't know she was going to freak out on the kids when we called them inside to dismiss them.

 

And now this thing with the popcorn- PK said she will do something. she's always come thru before, she's completely on top of things. But CC 'redoes' what the PK did.

I really think she's just trying to be helpful, but it's really starting to tick people off! ANY one of us will do something, the CC will 'fix' it. Or do it 'for' us because we went home from a meeting and went to bed instead of doing it right away.

 

I'm really looking for a way to tell her to just chill out! When you give a job to someone, LET THEM DO IT! When someone offers to do something, DON'T try to take it over!

ok, end of rant... now I have to figure out something productive to say, lol.

 

[scoutldr]

You need to just look her in the eye and say, "If you think I'm not capable of figuring this out, perhaps you'd better do it yourself." The "helicopter" technique doesn't work well with grownups.

[Gold Winger]

There is no way to remove a CC democratically, the CC doesn't serve at the pleasure of the committee, she serves at the pleasure of the CO.

 

Talk to your unit commissioner, get him (her?) involved. The UC should be distanced enough from the unit to help without getting involve with the personalities.

 

 

[ScoutNut]

What did you say to the CC when she told you how to withdraw money from your bank? Did you tell HER any of the things you have told US? Has anyone in the Pack let her know what she is doing and how she is making the leaders feel?

 

If no one has told her otherwise, she might just feel that the way she is doing things is fine.

 

 

[Lisabob]

There's a time to have that friendly cup of coffee and a chat, when things seem to be going a bit off track. I think you're there. Seems that people are often ready to kick out volunteers for various transgressions without stopping to consider that maybe this is an over-reaction. So this woman has a lot of strengths but annoys people by being to hands-on. Reminds me of that old knock-knock joke...

 

Knock Knock...

 

Who's there? .... (scroll down for punch line)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Control Freak. OK now you say "control freak who?"

 

 

You can all "fire" her (assuming your CO is either oblivious or in agreement), or you can find a way to politely let her know to back off, and then also help her direct her considerable organizational talents to places where it is really needed.

[Bob White]

It would seem a personal copunceling session is in order. Explain to her how her behavior is affecting the moral of the committe and explain what the repercussions could be. For instance, why would anyone continue to serve on a committee where they are obviously not treated well by the chairman.

 

But is she is to be removed the committee has no authority in that hey do have inout however and should discuss the matter with the Charter Orgaization Representative. Only the person with authority to replace the CC is the CR or the Institutional Head. There is nothing in the BSA that allows the committee to vote on the chairperson.

 

 

[Beavah]

There is nothing in the BSA that allows the committee to vote on the chairperson.

 

Nor is there anything which prohibits it, eh? This is done is some units, not in others. Generally speakin' I don't recommend contentious votes, but prefer workin' things out like friends and adults.

 

I'm with Lisabob here. Yeh have what looks like a CC that other packs would die for. Someone who's committed, organized, and energetic, eh? Count your blessings. The alternative is far worse.

 

But part of da problem with committed, energized, and organized people is that they take a lot of ownership of stuff and move it along... sometimes faster than others are willin' to go, sometimes without considerin' the feelings of others. I think the cup of coffee is in order. Feedback is a gift.

 

The other thing I'd try to find is a good friend of hers on the committee who complements her style and can provide a bit of a "buffer" for the rest. Committees are teams, and strong people often need good partners.

 

Beavah

 

[printman31]

I'm pretty sure the CC can't tell Den Leaders how to run their dens. If the people sitting in the current committee positions are properly trained. The CC shouldn't have to hold anyones hand to make sure the job gets done properly. So the question is. Has everyone completed their proper training? If not then the CC hasn't exactly done their job right either. It's amazing that so many people that join scouting can't realize that many people have done this long before them. Yet they come in trying to reinvent the wheel. Just follow the program & there shouldn't be any major problems.

[gcan]

thanks for all the feedback!

Re: the CO, they are non-existent. Actually in 4 years I've never seen any of 'em at anything we've had. They pretty much give us carte blanche to do whatever we feel is right, and up 'till now it's never, ever been a problem! I honestly don't think THEY would know what to do if we went to them. Oh, and did I mention that up till last year, the CO rep was a guy not even remotly affilliated with the CO?

Oh, and one other thing... our CC was kicked out of the CO because they couldn't deal with her. I don't know the dirty details, but I DO know she isn't welcome at any of thier meetings when she was not too long ago one of the heads. Ours makes orginization #4 that she has joined in the past few years, and the only one she actually still belongs too.

 

She doesn't have any close friends in the pack... the only one she was friendly with is the popcorn kernal!! So it seems like it's fallen upon me (everyone else is brand new or not able to be calm, lol). We do have a committee meeting soon to discuss alllll of this... but you all think I should pull her aside first? And no, nobody has told her until now that she's talking down to us, we mostly just nodd and ignore her. because isn't that the 'adult' thing to do when dealing with a difficult adult? Guess that didn't work, though...

 

ok, i'll try too talk to her before the meeting. And apparently there is an issue with her wigging out on the kids on 'float night', parents DID complain (which cropped up along with all this other stuff). So THAT will definatly have to be adressed first and foremost.

 

ugh. I hate having to have a sit-down with an adult!

[Lisabob]

gcan, does your unit have a unit commissioner? If you do, this might be a good time to call him or her for some help with this delicate task, and both of you could meet with the CC. Sometimes an outside, friendly, voice can achieve things that are much more difficult when it is just you meeting with the CC.

 

Having been booted out of 3 other organizations including your CO isn't a good sign. As BW will surely chime in, this is a problem that would be far less likely if everybody actually followed the leader selection guidelines from the BSA. In all likelihood, the CO would not have chosen her to head up their pack, had the process been followed. (In reality, I know of very few units who follow these, myself, sad to say. So I'm not criticizing your pack, just making a comment about the gap between ideal and real sometimes.) But the larger issue - unless there's someone else who is not already wearing too many scouting hats and who is both more capable and willing to be the CC, then I'd recommend you slow down with talk of sacking this woman and look first at helping her understand the boundaries of her position.

 

Also, CCs shouldn't be running meetings with/for youth. That's really the CM's and DL's jobs. If you can make that clear to everyone and the rest of the DL/CM group are up to snuff, you'll be able to avoid future situations where she "wigs out" on the kids because she'll never be running a kids' activity.

 

By the way, what is your role in the pack? Are you on the committee? Are you a Den Leader? The CM? Your role may influence how you approach her.

 

 

[Bob White]

"Nor is there anything which prohibits it, eh?"

 

Sure there is!

Ass a Commissioner you know there are numerous BSA resources the tell you that the CR and IH select and approve the Committee Chair.

 

Show us just one that says the CC is elected by the committee.

[Beavah]

Sorry for da thread drift, gcan. I think you're doin' right. Go have a coffee and give feedback in private. (Praise in Public, feedback in private!). If yeh could, I'd try to do it several days before the next committee meeting. People often need to "process" feedback. To get angry, and then recover, and then change. Takes a few days .

 

I'd encourage da committee strongly not to conduct a public lynching or gripe session. Almost nothin' can come of that but hurt feelings. That should be step 3. First it should be one person, then a different small group, both in private. Save the "Hey, we as a committee need to do somethin' different" for da last step if yeh can.

 

If you do get there, though, I reckon given the history that your CO will accept a recommendation from the committee on a new chair, eh?

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[SSScout]

""Whut we have heah, is a laack, of communication.""

 

Ditto all the above.

 

Review the manual.

Speak to the UC.

Speak to the CC, WAY before the next meeting. If my prior history is any guide, she is probably sure that she is doing the right thing, in the right way, for the good of the organization.

It is never a good thing to let bad feelings fester to the point of the group disbanding rather than (first gently, then more directly) telling the person HOW SHE MAKES YOU FEEL. And the possible result of the accumulation of those feelings." Dolores, when you say...... it makes me feel......."

Be sensitive to her personal dynamics. Might be other things (family dynamics, health issues, unappreciative boss, lack of different training) make her do what she does well (plan, organize, delegate, followup,etc.) in such a poor way (micromanage, treat us like children, no appreciation,).

Speak to the other committee people. Get them to speak directly to CC away from the meeting table, so the CC realizes that it ain't just YOU.

Love of Scouting should be your motivation, not just your own hurt feelings. "It's for your kids".

Speak to the CO and COR and IH, if possible. Invite and include. If they are a "stand off" CO, it ain't all their fault. They can be a help and be proud of their Scout Units.

Make it a Win-Win situation for everyone. Then stand back and be glad you were the instigator rather than the "I wish someone would do something"-ator.

 

Good Scouting to you!