Dropping out of Elementary School

[Buffalo Skipper]

I would like to announce to everyone that my 5th grade son is dropping out of elementary school to attend a Video Game Academy. I asked him if he wanted to continue with his school, and he said "No." We talked about it and he thinks it would be more fun to attend a school for video gamers. I said sure.

 

After all, as a 5th grader, it is important that he make his own decisions--he is much more in touch with his needs than I am. Things have changed since I was a 10 year old, and I understand that.

 

So what does everyone think?

 

[Buffalo Skipper]

 

Is this a joke? Sort of, but not really. I am trying to make a point here. Our pack has lost many good Cub Scouts this year because their parents asked them if they wanted to stay in cub scouts and they said no. I have had this idea to make a kind of flyer on this theme to (politely) express how stupid a question like this is for a parent to ask their 8 year old.

 

If you want to help with this, pass around some ideas. Is a flyer the best way to present this, or maybe a newsprint like story, passed out as the pack newsletter?

 

[Stosh]

The sad part of it all is that there are parents out there that really think along these lines and wouldn't want to disrupt their BFF status with their kids. What will probably happen is the parents who are already considering this action will leave in a huff anyway and those that are bringing their kids up with adult expectations will keep them in the pack/troop. I like the attempt though. I have had boys drop out of scouting because the parents needed a break from all the activity the boy was having to do. It wasn't like sports where one could hang out for a few weeks and get great accolades, but this 365 day season was way too much to expect of a child.

 

Stosh

[ManyHats]

We had our roundup and were excited to have 20 new boys sign up. The Bear DL called everyone about the 1st meeting. We had one parent say little Johnny just signed up to get the free pinewood derby kit. I was really surprised they would go so far as to fill out all the paperwork and pay the $10 just to get the kit. Guess they didn't know anyone can buy them at the scout shop.

Getting them to join is one thing... keeping them is an entire different thing

[DYB-Mike]

to (politely) express how stupid a question like this is for a parent to ask their 8 year old.

 

Buffalo Skipper, doesnt that seem somewhat harsh? Are you saying that we should force our children do things they dont want to do? While I understand youre trying to prove a point I dont think the analogy holds. Forcing a child to remain in elementary school and forcing a child to remain in scouts are apples and oranges.

 

Whether we like it or not our kids are not always going to be interested in the things that we would like them to be interested in.

 

My wife is the athlete in the family. She played sports in school and her dream was that her children would follow in her footsteps. Unfortunately, our children take after their Dad, who lacks ability and the interest to develop it (an example of how opposites attract). We put our kids into soccer, baseball, and track. They were willing to try it but out on the field they usually just goofed around. Although they showed some promise they lacked the desire to develop it. Now, my wife could get on their case and drive them, but for what? She realizes that that would only be selfish of her. Our kids need to find their own interests, not necessarily Moms or Dads, and we as parents need to support their choices, so long as they are not illegal or self-destructive.

 

Whats the point of forcing a kid to remain in scouts if he doesnt want to? I would think an unhappy or disinterested kid would be a headache for the den leader and/or a distraction to the other boys.

 

I also hate to see boys drop out and I agree that we should work to retain them but I wouldnt frame it the way you propose. Rather than dictate youre 8, you dont know what youre talking about, and youll do as I say, I would be more inclined to advise parents that if they find that their son is loosing interest in scouts to sit down and try to get at the reasons why. If the den and/or pack meetings are boring then perhaps a polite talk with the leadership or a change of pack might be in order to spice things up. Maybe Mom or Dad getting more involved in the pack might help. Perhaps helping son to recruit more of his friends would make things more fun for him.

 

If suggestions such as these fail and the boy just isnt interested then I dont see the point in forcing him to remain, particularly if he expresses the desire or displays the abilities to do something else worthwhile.

 

Just my humble opinion.

 

YIS,

Mike

[Lisabob]

On occasion my son has talked about quitting scouts. My response has consistently been that he doesn't have to be involved in scouting, but that he does need to be involved in *something* that brings him into interaction with other people, outside of video games and school. That could be an after school club or community organization, a sport, a class at the rec center, another youth program, volunteering, whatever, but social interaction and connection to community matter and you don't build those by sitting alone in your room or staring at a screen.

 

To my great pleasure, he has chosen (thus far) to remain in scouting, AND to do some of those other worthwhile things too. And I'm glad that he can honestly say it is his choice.

 

I can understand Buffalo Skipper's frustration with parents who seem to let their young children's every whim dictate everything. Sometimes as well, parents who "offer" this sort of choice are in reality, wishing that their kid will take the unspoken cues and quit scouts (or whatever activity). Then when asked why, the parent is off the hook and can say "Johnny just wasn't interested" when really, Parents weren't interested in sustaining Johnny's participation. That annoys me. But beating those parents over the head with a 2x4 (or flyer) isn't going to work anyway. They'll just find some other excuse for their kids to quit.

[Pack212Scouter]

I think Buffalo Skipper has a point. It may be made in a vivid and harsh way, but it is true. As a parent it is your job and resposibility to make sure that little Johny is getting what he needs to grow up into a responsible and Godly young man. To this end it is your job to look at and decide if little Johny's activities are of benefit to him and the family. For example, little Johny may wish he could play football with his buddy, but he doesn't hate Scouts. If the decision were leftup to Johny, he'll go for football. It is up to the parent to look at the situation and see if hmmm...once he's at a Scout meeting or event, he benefits from it. Option two is that Johny really, really hates Scouting. If he is going to be disruptive and not learn anything but despising it, then maybe something else is in order.

 

Basically, little Johny may have input in what he says he would like to do, but the parent shouldn't outright ask "what do you want to do." They are the parent....it's their JOB to make these decisions, not pawn it off on Little Johny, who has neither the maturity nor the objective outlook needed.

[SctDad]

I have to agree with Lisa

 

I think that the boys that sign up and then never show up has a lot to do with the parents. Especially at the Tiger level.

 

I had one parent tell me that their son did not want to do scouting any more. then my son came home and said that so-and-so wished his parents would have let him join scouts. (Pass the 2X4 please) I cannot believe that there isn't one person in that entire family can bring this lad to the meetings and activities.

 

I also had another parent tell me that scouting cost too much and that is why they never came back after recharter. This was right after they paid their registration dues. Go figure.

 

I could never understand why some parents would not put their sons into a proven character building program.

 

Not to mention, camping is fun too.

[scottteng]

As home schoolers we already did the dropping out of elementary school thing. I have on occasion had to lay down the law to my son that he is free to quit scouts and that I am also free to discontinue our cable TV and to dispose of his collection of video game systems. I have kept him in scouts so far. I have to agree with Lisabob he will be involve in something. He is at the moment in karate as well as music lessons and scouting with two different units a troop and the shooting sports crew. I am sure that he will do less with his troop and more with the crew as he matures. The bloom is off the camping rose as a life scout with 30 merit badges and over 100 nights of camping experience. It is onward and upward as he is looking forward to competing in shooting sports in the coming year as well as advancing in his karate belts.

[Buffalo Skipper]

Thank you for your responses. First, Mike, yes, I made my statement harshly, and though I would never speak to a parent that way, I really was seeking a reaction from our group. I am not a confrontational person or leader, but I felt the forum was a safe place to "provoke" a reaction. Along those line, I would never force my son to stay in scouting if that was not in his best interest. One of my closest friends allowed his son to walk away at about age 14, after several years of finessing him to stay in the troop. He grew up to be a fine young man, and his dad stayed as a scouting volunteer for another 20 years.

 

As Lisa says, my frustration is with the parent who avoids accepting responsiblity for their child's well being. A child cannot learn from mistakes like these. It is our job as parents to make certain decisions for our children when they are young, and allow them more responsiblity as they mature and grow older. The Cub Scout-Boy Scout-Venturing program mirrors that system of "education."

 

But back to the original point of this thread. Without forcing our will on other parents, is there any way we can subtly encourage these parents to help their children make good choices? I don't want to step on toes here, but I do want to reach these boys, who in all likelyhood, stand to gain the most from scouting. How can we appeal these parents?

[evmori]

My wife's older sister was a great example to us of how we didn't want to parent. Her boys ran them. They did what they wanted.

 

Kids want guidance. Kids need parents who will provide that guidance. Kids don't need their parents to be their friends. They have enough of those outside the family!

[Ohio_Scouter]

I'm convinced the best way to keep young Scouts interested in Scouting is to have a really good program--something that younger scouts really look forward to. Our high adventure program seems to fill the bill for our Troop. We keep them interested and inspired to stick around until they are old enough and physically prepared enough to attend our high adventure trips every summer. To do that, we have designed an exciting program that keeps them interested year round supplemented by more senior scouts and ASMs/JASMs who help run the programs. Our dropout rate is pretty low, and our Eagle attainment rate is currently running about 90%.

[DYB-Mike]

Hi Buffalo Skipper,

 

I may have been a little harsh myself. I guess it was the stupid question that got me. I wholeheartedly agree that we as parents must exercise our authority when necessary, particularly in the event of non-stop video game marathons. I also believe that it doesnt hurt to engage our kids in decisions about them. Ive gotten some surprisingly rational responses from my children. Ultimately we parents make the decision but I believe that by showing that were willing to listen and that we value their opinions we build relationships that hopefully will serve us in the difficult teen years.

 

Ohio Scouter probably gave the best advice for retention: make sure youre offering an exciting and varied program that no kid in their right mind would say no to.

 

If you want to send some subtle hints to parents via your newsletter start a regular column like The Benefits of Scouting. Include lists of famous scouts and eagle scouts and quotes about how scouting benefited them. Appeal to ambition (An eagle scout recommendation letter goes a long way with colleges and prospective employers) or thrift (Scouts often get discounts at sporting goods stores). Ask your scouts what they like most about scouting and include that too, sort of boy-to-boy communication.

 

You could print up the Benefits list and distribute it at Roundups. As a pre-emptive strike of sorts you could distribute the list to all your scout families with a cover letter that reminds them of the ways their son is benefiting from his participation in the program.

 

If you are aware that a boy has dropped from the program you could send the list with a different cover, sort of like what you get in some junk mail solicitations: Before you throw this away please read this. Say that youre sorry Johnny is considering dropping from the program and are they fully aware of the good times and other benefits hell miss. Follow this up a few days later with a phone call to make sure they got the letter and to see if Johnny has reconsidered his decision. If the parents are still insistent that Johnny (or, more than likely they, the parents) doesnt want to continue I think theres little you can do beyond letting them know that Johnny is always welcome to return if he changes his mind.

 

YIS,

Mike

 

[Buffalo Skipper]

Mike,

You are right. I do not use the work "stupid" at home, in my pack or troop, and I should have chosen my words more carefully. I think you and Ohio Scouter really get it when you say a good program is what works best to retain members. For everyone's benefit, let me go into some more of the background of what really happened with me.

 

In our pack, we have had one den which has had continually changing leadership. One leader as a Tiger, who stepped down and pulled out at the end of that year; another who stepped up for the Wolf year, and stepped down at the end of the year, and another who took over for the Bear year, and in April announced she would not be returning. Each year, when the leader left, so did 2/3 of the den, leaving only 2 or 3 to continue to the next year. Truth be known, all 3 leaders did an excellent job for the year, were dedicated, attended leader's meetings and met most every week. When pressed, the outgoing Bear leader said she was just frustrated that she planned program every week and only 1 or 2 boys showed up.

I was just stepping down as Cubmaster, and I offered to take over the this den (my son is 1 year older, not in this den), committing to stay through crossover, in 2 years. The outgoing Bear leader offered to stay as an assistant, but remained inactive over the pack's (light) summer schedule.

Yesterday, I received an email saying she had asked her son, and he said he did not want to stay in cub scouts. I certainly can understand why. But it got under my skin, because the reason his mother had such a bad time, was that only one other family committed to the being a member of the den and participating (probably because mom every week asked little Johnny: "do you want to go the meeting this week?" and Johnny replied "No."), and now she is doing the same thing.

Prehaps now you can understand from where I am coming with this.

[Bob White]

What is the difference between the type of parents you are discussing and those Scout leaders who do the same thing?