Webelos Crossover, back then?

[Gold Winger]

" If the Webelos are not prepared for the type of Troop they are going in, they will either be bored to death and leave or intimidated and leave."

 

This discussion has got me to thinking. Back in the 60s, the Boy Scouts had it largest growth period as reflected by the membership numbers. How the heck did they manage to do that back then?

 

Most Eagles that I know from back then were never Cub Scouts, not a large sample set but telling.

 

The boys that did cross over from Cub Scouts did so individually, we little preparation. Boom! It's your birthday, now you can join the Boy Scouts.

 

No new scout patrols. No anxious parents following behind them. Just a kid thrust into a new experience.

 

How could we have been so cruel back then? How did the Boy Scouts survive?

[Eagledad]

Well there are a couple assumptions that aren't quite correct. The huge majority of scouts in troops did come from the Cubs. And, the drop out rate of first year scouts was about the same as it is now.

 

The reason for the higher numbers back then was a successful advertising program developing a culture that second grade boys automatically join Cub Scouts. An increase of Cubs led to the increase of troops.

 

In my humble opinion, (and I know it is a reach, but I believe it), adding the Tiger program took a huge toll on the pack recruitment over the years. First grade boys are too young for this program and problems of Tigers has taken away the culture of second grade boys automatically joining scouts. Boys today try it in first grade and we loose a huge chunk of them even before they get to second grade.

 

Barry

[Gold Winger]

"Well there are a couple assumptions that aren't quite correct. The huge majority of scouts in troops did come from the Cubs."

 

I never made an assumption, I simply reported my observations about Eagles that I know.

 

"The reason for the higher numbers back then was a successful advertising program developing a culture that second grade boys automatically join Cub Scouts."

 

Back then, you joined Cubs in 3rd grade.

 

" First grade boys are too young for this program and problems of Tigers has taken away the culture of second grade boys automatically joining scouts."

 

I think that second grade is too early as well. However, we are competing for bodies with sports that start in kindergarten, piano lessons, karate, and the like.

 

Scouts? To many parents, that's for losers because the goal isn't to WIN!

(This message has been edited by Gold Winger)

[GKlose]

My Webelos years would have been '70/71 or so, but I don't remember much about them. We didn't really concentrate on advancement (so I didn't earn AoL, although I remember quite a few activities that would have counted for AoL). One of the most memorable experiences was that our WDL took us to a meeting of every troop in town (there were about six troops back then). When I originally entered the meeting for one troop, I knew it was the one I wanted to join. One thing that helped was that I immediately saw kids I knew from school.

 

The "troop meeting tour" was such a big thing for me, that when my son was a Webelos II this last year, I took him to every troop in town (4 troops). Not everyone in his den came with us. A mom or two was confused ("I thought we were supposed to join Troop XX" -- the troop this pack "feeds"). No, you can join any troop you want, including a troop in another town.

 

So, when I moved into a troop, I had no Crossover (I didn't know the "bridging ceremony" existed until a couple of years ago). But, I couldn't wait to join. My older brothers had been cubs and scouts (but none stuck with it). Once I joined, there was no looking back.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that, for me, Webelos wasn't all that big of a deal back then. I had my eyes ahead on joining a troop.

[CalicoPenn]

Of all the changes I've seen in the Scouting program, the worst (even worse than the program changes of the 70's) was the addition of the Tiger Cub program (did we really have to compete with the YMCA Indian Guides program?), and the two-year Webelos program. Back in my day (now using the same voice as Grampa Simpson), we were able to earn the Webelos Badge AND the Arrow of Light, and most (if not all) of the Activity Pins in one year, all while wearing an onion hanging from our belt. Now, these weren't red onions, or those white onions with the flimsy skin, these were big, honking yellow onions that you could buy for a nickle - now back in those days, we called nickles bees - give me five bees for a quarter you'd say. (umm - sorry - still channeling Gramps Simpson)

 

I crossed-over in November - the month I turned 11. Some in my Webelos Den crossed-over before I did (and were replaced by Bear Scouts that had turned 10) and I left some in my Webelos Den behind (and they crossed over when they turned 11 - if they didn't drop out). I remember that my first Boy Scout outing was not a campout, it was a Klondike Derby, and I spent three weeks with my patrol collecting discarded Xmas trees, limbing them, and building our Klondike Sleds out of them), and my second "outing" was the District First Aid Meet (which was held in February, and I spent the time between Klondike and the First Aid Meet learning First Aid in Troop Meetings).

 

But that doesn't really answer GW's question - the last few years of the Baby Boom (which ended in 1960), were also the years with the most growth, population wise. The number of babies born in the early part of the boom was much smaller than the numbers born from about 1955 to 1959 - then a decrease started in 1960 - with the baby busters starting from 1961 to 1965 (Baby Busters are considered by most sociologists to be either the beginning of Generation X, or one of the occasional short-spanned "bridge generations" between two significant generations - only media people, who are just unable to fully explain anything they come across (maybe because they just report in soundbites now, or maybe they just have short attention spans) consider this to be the tail end of the Baby Boom). Of course, the early 60's were still affected by the Eisenhower years of post-war prosperity, and were being affected by the Kennedy Camelot era - so since everything was hunky-dory, and peachy-keen, and rah-rah patriotic, the Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts really benefitted from the huge numbers of Boomers available to join.

 

Towards the late 60's and early 70's, as the Baby Busters/Gen X'ers started coming on stage, things changed in America - the Vietnam War was really dividing people, as was the Civil Rights struggles, and the Youth Movement. Many people took off the rose-colored glasses they seemed to be wearing, and started to really take a hard look at their country. Patriotism, while not out, was being redefined to reflect personal beliefs - and individual rights were taking center stage. Add a healthy distrust of the Military (not the Troops, but the Generals and Leaders) and groups that were strongly identified with Country (and to an extent, the Military), were losing their attraction. Guess where the Boy Scouts of America fits. The so-called "Inner-City" emphasis by the Boy Scouts in the early 70's was, in my opinion, a direct response to those issues - an attempt to remain relevant in a world that was changing right before our eyes. Couple all that with marked decrease in the number of potential recruits (remember, starting in 1961, we were starting what most were calling the Baby Bust), and there was a decrease in numbers in Scouting.

 

I have to admit, I hadn't given it much thought, but in hindsight, I'd guess that a majority of my cohorts who earned the Eagle Scout rank didn't also earn the Arrow of Light. In fact, looking back, most of the Boy Scouts in my Troop didn't earn the Arrow of Light, or if they did, they didn't wear the patch.

 

Calico

[NeilLup]

Having joined the Boy Scouts in 1957, I am a little before that time but can answer with a little knowledge.

 

You joined Boy Scouts because -- that was what you did. As Calico Penn has said, America was a very different place then. Very white bread. Very suburban. Parents of the "greatest generation" who believed in having their kids grow up with the self-reliance of Scouting. There was segregation, both formal and informal, reflected in some cases in Scouting.

 

Probably most significant, there was very little competition in youth activities and youth sports. While there was some little league, it wasn't the all encompassing 24/7 thing that it is today. You got to go camping and that was very unusual otherwise.

 

I believe that one of the very major factors in the relative drop in membership in the BSA was the extremely aggressive merchandising/marketing effort to youth started off by the NFL in the mid '70s and then continued by Major League Baseball, the NBA, college sports and now NASCAR. It is not by accident that you see all the youth sports, etc. Youth represent a major revenue source for the pros and colleges. Athletic shoes are massive business.

 

Back then, the Arrow of Light was a very small part of Cub Scouting. One was a Wolf at age 8, then a Bear at age 9, a Lion at age 10 and one started working on Arrow of Light at 10 3/4. You completed all the requirements for Tenderfoot in earning the Arrow of Light. But a lot of boys dropped out of Cub Scouting because Lion was much the same as Wolf and Bear with slightly different activities and electives.

 

But then you joined a Boy Scout Troop whether or not you had the Arrow of Light because that was what you did and that was what your friends did. But, unless you were unusual, you didn't stay. The fraction of youth making Eagle was much smaller. It was very unusual to be an Eagle Scout but nothing was thought about it if you weren't. First Class Scout was a big thing. Eligibility for most things came at First Class (OA, Religious Award, SPL, etc.)

 

Webelos Activity Badges were create in 1967 and the Lion rank was dropped. The Activity Badges were specifically designed to be different from Boy Scout requirements. If a boy had to do soil conservation for Boy Scouting, the Webelos Activity Badge requirements might target water conservation. The situation got much worse for transition in 1972 when the "Improved Scout Program" came in with a requirement for earning one merit badge to qualify for Tenderfoor Scout. The incoming Webelos Scout got essentially no head start at all in Boy Scouting. That situation was addressed with the Webelos to Scout Transition program started in 1977.

 

But to the basic question, in my opinion, the most serious reasons for the drops in Boy Scout membership were the drop in total youth population in that time, (Our daughter, who was born in 1973 was in the trough year) and the increase in competitive youth sports and other youth activities aggressivly marketed and sold by pro sports, TV, etc.

[Basementdweller]

The problem with the tigers is it requires adult participation. I have seen more than one adult turn around and leave as soon as they found that out. The other problem is the back lash against organized religion. Lets face it most of the CO are churches. I had one mother yell at me and tell me that the scouts had no business in a church. what do you say to that? "Well, scouting is about family, god and country, what did you think it was about, Oh, camping, well that is part of it, BUT...."

 

The boys want to play and organized sports give a young man just that. I have been shopping for a new pack of late and you would be surprised at what goes on. Boys seat down an do crafts for an hour, or get lectured for an hour, or just work on rank advancement whats the fun in that?