Special Exceptions

[PACK15NISSAN]

Our CM seems to think that the rules don't apply to him. I am not sure if it is because he is the CM or a local Elem. Principal, but he seems to just ignore deadlines for events and register his kid anytime. Our Webelos Resident camp is coming up this weekend, the deadline to register was the end of June and he still hasn't signed his kid up. When I asked if his son was coming, he said he didn't know yet, then when I mentioned the deadline had passed a long time ago he said "they will still let him in, they always do".

 

I realize that eventually I am going to deal with other parents trying to push the deadline too. I am not sure whether to talk with him, some one with the CO or to just ignore the problem. I realize that if the program director of the event is going to let him in that really it doesn't have too much of an effect on me, but I really need to know who and how many of my kids are participating in an event to plan.

 

So I guess my question is what do I do?

 

Is this normal for a CM (do they have special rules)?

[scottteng]

Unless "they" enforce the deadline then people will flaunt it. I guess they got tired of people doing that here so they set up a two tier pricing. On time registration is one price late registration is considerably higher. If people are willing to pay the extra then they get in.

[evmori]

I have always been in favor of two-tier pricing. Get your reservation in by X & you pay X. Get your reservation in later & you pay more, but there still needs to be a cutoff date. And the reservations should be by unit, not individual. Otherwise, this makes planning a total nightmare for the unit & the camp!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Lisabob]

Nope, no "special rules" by virtue of being CM. Yes, our council allows last-minute registrations for just about anything as long as there's room, and usually with a late registration fee. No, I don't like to see people abuse that policy either though.

 

I think it would be useful to frame it this way: Cub Scouts are asked to "help the pack go." The same is expected of cub leaders. People who habitually do this sort of thing are NOT helping the pack go and in fact may be causing problems for the pack down the line. (Or if this fellow was a boy scout, you can hit him with the scout law. Helpful? Courteous? Obedient? Thrifty?) Or if you really want to push his buttons, ask him what would happen if parents all waited until the first day of school to register their kids for kindergarten.

 

 

[PACK15NISSAN]

We have the two-tier pricing in effect for our council, early registration was by June 15th and late was up until June 30th. I like the idea of an incentive to sign up early or at least a penalty for signing up late however you look at it.

 

We have never made reservations by unit for Cub Day Camp or Resident Camp, it is an individual thing. I contacted everyone multiple times to remind them and answer questions about it and out of 8 solid boys we have 3 going and maybe the CM's son.

 

What I am supposed to do in the future when I parent who is late signing their kid up comes to me and ask can I still register, tell them "no the deadline passed", "yes, they always take people late", or "you will have to talk to such and such and see if they will except him"?

 

I guess I am just aggrevated that some one in power is abusing it rather than setting the example.

[ScoutNut]

If your council allows/encourages individual sign ups, and does not make it mandatory to sign up for Webelos Resident Camp as a unit then I would not worry about it at all.

 

Knowing how many of "your" boys will be there is nice to know, but not really necessary. All of the "planning" is done by the Camp Staff.

 

If/when your CM registers, your council will put them where they have room. It really has nothing to do with you, and I would not worry about it.

 

[ScoutNut]

"What I am supposed to do in the future when I parent who is late signing their kid up comes to me and ask can I still register"

 

 

You tell them the truth - You have no idea, they must talk to the folks at the council offices and register there, if they still can.

 

 

[PACK15NISSAN]

ScoutNut: I still think regardless if we register as a unit or not that is my business as the WDL to know who is going to camp. If that one boy is put into another group then he will not be happy, and I like to try to keep all the boys who are going to camp working on the same activity badges and Badge requirements during den or patrol time. If I have 3 that have done X and 1 that has done Y, it makes it that much harder to get them all on the same page.

 

Not all the planning is done by the camp staff either. I have to make sure that I provide transportation for all the boys going. If I have one that is a "maybe" then it makes it hard to plan for a possible extra, especially right now since that means taking 1 vehicle if he doens't go and 2 if he does.

 

As far as the telling the parents the truth, I do agree that I will have to tell them to contact whomever is "in charge" of the activity and see what they say. However, the truth would be "sure your son can go, deadlines don't mean anything in our council, besides the CM doesn't care, why should you". It is going to be a real problem one day when a parent doesn't send their child or can't because of a deadline and the CM's son goes. I just think it is a kick to all of those who follow the rules.

[Lisabob]

Nissan, with all respect, I think you are creating a problem for yourself where there does not need to be one. If parents cannot get their act together by the deadline, then make it clear that they are welcome to work something out with the camp but that you - as a representative of the pack - have no say over matters and will not be held responsible for how things turn out. This means you aren't responsible for transporting last-minute kids either (if you can, fine, but there should be no expectation on the parent's part). This means parents need to figure out how to get junior to camp if they wait til the very last second to sign up.

 

As for the advancement business, again I say you're creating more of a problem than there needs to be. If a kid is off doing his own thing, fine! Keep in mind that as boy scouts (which your Webelos are approaching with rapid speed), they will NOT be all working in a group on the same activities/advancements, directed and organized by adults. Start planning for that now so that it isn't a foreign concept to them (or their parents) when they join a troop.

 

I loved being a WDL and I get that your heart is really in this. I commend you for it too. Just be careful not to take on responsibility for others' actions, or lack of timely actions. If they create the problem by their behavior, let THEM figure out how to solve it.

 

As for the CM - I don't see why you couldn't tell him more or less what you've told us here. Not that it is highly likely to result in change.

 

 

 

 

[evmori]

It seems strange to me that for resident camp they would have individual Cub sign up an not by unit. I would check into this first. I can see individual Cub sign up for day camp.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[ScoutNut]

You know Ed, I wondered that too. If you register individually, without an adult, how would the Camp Director make sure there are enough adults for each group?

 

In my council, for Cub Summer Camps, they take individual registrations, but they require the boys to register with a parent. They also make it clear that if you register late they will not be able to guarantee that you will be placed with the rest of your unit.

 

Day Campers are asked to register as a unit with at least 2 adults and then 1 adult for every 5 boys. They will take individual registrations, but then require a parent to sign up with the boy. Here also, if you sign up individually, at the last minute, they can not guarantee that you will be placed in the same group as the rest of your Pack.

 

Den groupings are not put together the night before the campers arrive. They are done soon after the deadline cutoff so that the Camp Director knows how to manage the Camp set up. Most Camp Directors, while they will try to accommodate, will not throw their entire camp plan up for grabs because some folks register the day before camp starts!

[PACK15NISSAN]

Obviously my council is different from most, because scouts sign up individually, at least from our Pack. Perhaps there are other Packs in our council that did it as a unit but I don't know. I am sure that is why the deadline for registration was a month before the actual Camp (starts this Thursday), so that all the applicants can get in and the director can sort them into patrols. The director always tries to make sure all boys from the same Pack are together, but there are times (late registration) when boys just have to be put where there is room. Our council does not have a problem with volunteers, they require 1 adult from each Pack if the Pack is sending more than 3 boys.

 

Maybe I am taking to much from this, the boys in my den have set goals and I want to help them achieve it, and I guess I have to figure in parent involvement or lack there of.

[ghermanno]

Okay. Read the post up to here.

 

Here is what I summarized: You are NOT Camp Staff but your Pack is sending at least three boys so you are a Den Leader for the Camp. You either have another leader going with you or are expecting to be assinged one at Camp. You are planning the Den activities with the other leader for "free time"? You are concerned about other Webelos not registering on time but are not your children?

 

Does that sum it up?

 

Reply: Thank you for volunteering. Thank you for "Being Prepared" for free time. Let the parent be responsible for thier registration. Try to ENJOY your time with YOUR assigned DEN. If you dwell on what might of been you may lose what can be.

 

Just my $0.02

 

Rick

(Former Day Camp & Resident Camp Program Director)

[gcan]

not that this is the problem here, but in my experience people procrastinate/ drop the ball/ lag behind because we LET them. You're right, as long as the council/pack/den lets kids sign up late, they will have people sign up late.

But I for one don't think they should be as accomidating. Yes, you ahve last minute changes- the parent who was able to find the money to send Jr., the kid who's dad decided he didn't want that week for vacation after all... but if the general expectation is that there will always be more space, people will always be late.

 

I'm not saying you should ignore the problem, but really it isn't your problem! It's the CM who will now have to transport his kid, GO if there is no room in your den to take him.

In the future, though, stick to your deadlines. We have the same problem- a prominent member of the community is always late with sign ups. Guess what? He had to explain to his kid why everyone but them was spending the night at a baseball game, and sleeping out on the field. We had a (public)deadline, we waited an extra 5 days for our ok-this-is-really-it deadline, and they wanted in a week before the event. Didn't happen.

If you allow them the expectation of getting 'in' whenever they feel like it, they will live down to that expectation.

 

Now, re: keeping them on the same page when they are not together. See my post about our boys going to camp a different week, lol. But honestly, again, don't make it YOUR problem. Dad dropped the ball, the kid ends up not with you. then if he wants to earn the pins and badges along with everyone else, dad will have to work with him at home. Dad created the problem, let dad be the one to fix it!

[Karen_216]

I agree he's not setting a good example. That said maybe he is in contact w/ someone who said "yes we have plenty of space" so decided he could wait until the last minute to decide.

He pays more, he has to get his son there, he has to hear his son cry about not being with friends. Don't let it worry you. Hopefully in the future he'll learn his lesson and they won't have space. Councils will let people add on unitl last minute if there's space. They want the money.

About the not following the rules and deadlines thing- that's just what some people do. they don't think until last minute. As a CM I always am first on the list, not last.

you go, have fun and don't concern yourself w/ his plans. You plan based on what you have registered now. I wouldn't keep asking him or others if they are joining. If they do and let you know- let them provide the xtra supplies needed.