Overweight/disability?

[yarrow]

In the public sector being overweight is now largely considered a disease or disability worthy of extra consideration. How does that fit with those who can not do the rank hikes, swims, and personal fitness badges required to get rank. Are exceptions made for this as for other handicaps?

[k9gold-scout]

No, usually not, only if the scout has a documented medical condition preventing his from finishing a specific requirement then a substitute requirement would be considered. If he is just overweight he needs either to loose weight or do the requirements as stated.

[LauraT7]

Some people look on obesity as a medical problem, but the majority still think of weight and other "invisible" disabilities as a character flaw and lack of discipline and excercise; despite the "PC" lip service otherwise. They may SAY one thing - they BELIEVE otherwise.

 

I'm 5' 10" and a good 80 to 100 lbs overweight. Depite my weight (or in spite of it) and it's attendant problems, (bad back, knees, less energy, etc) I still camp, fish, swim, walk, bike, canoe etc. with my son. I just do it more carefully and slowly - may not get as far on a hike or bike ride - but i am working and trying much harder than anyone else there - just to keep up with or at the end of the group. And I cetainly wouldn't do it if I didn't enjoy it.

 

I just spent a week at camp with my son and his troop - in 95 degree heat and unbearable humidity, and at least part of the time, (until the midweek rainstorm) I was miserable. So was everybody else. Fat people sweat without trying, though - I think even my fingernails were sweating! Our site was a mile from the waterfront, and a mile in the other direction from the scoutcraft and nature area where our troop spent much of their time. Up the hills, down the hills, with deep sand paths - walking for me was much harder than it was for my co- leader - I carried that extra poundage with me every minute! My knees were killing me, and I wore blisters on both feet. I might've moved slowly, but i got there!

 

My co-leader at camp was a 5'1, 100 lb mom in great shape. She bounced all over camp with terrific energy - and more than once made the comment to me "It's not far, only a mile!" (or 2 or 3!)

 

I'm not telling you this for sympathy - I'm saying it so you will understand how much harder EVERYTHING is when you have a disability - especially one that isn't obvious and recognised as such. people understand and adjust for loss of sight or hearing, or having MS or diabetes, or asthma - but if you're overweight - you're just not trying hard enough.

 

I think that each boy should be judged on HIS merits - keep in mind that a tiny advancement or improvement may be monumental in perspective to where they started.

 

My son is ADD - and his abilities range from 2 years younger than his "cronological" age in social skills and physical ability, to high school and above in his ability to read, do math and science.

 

Is it "fair" to hold him back in rank advancement because he can't do a lot of pushups? To my way of thinking, pushups aren't very important of themselves - but the initiative to try and to improve, IS.

 

Is it important that he know how to swim? not really - UNLESS he likes to boating, (which he does) and then he must logically be able to swim to shore without panicking, in case the boat leaks or flips.

 

I think the point of the advancements are to see that the boy sets a goal and works towards it - not all are going to be Eagles. Advancements and merit badges are a means to teach - not an end in themselves. But if a boy needs a reasonable substitution for a requirement that he cannot do or is unreasonably difficult for him - then we should make a substitution.

 

Laura

 

[Quixote]

While obesity can be disabling, it is not and should not (in my opinion) be a recognized disability. I believe that most overweight people (myself included) can lose the weight through diet and exercise.

 

Laura,

 

nobody is "holding back" or denying advancement because of someone's weight, if he does the requirements, he advances.

 

As for not learning to swim, I would hope you would reconsider your attitude concerning what is probably one of the most recognized life saving skills a scout has. Not liking water sports is not a reason not to learn this life saving skill.

 

Quixote

[sctmom]

Some obesity is due to medical problems. If that is the case then the doctor will gladly document it. There may be medical or psychological reasons why a child is overweight. May be learned habits at home.

 

I do think that Laura has some good points. The kid who is overweight may have to work a little harder than the others. Be patient, continue to encourage withouth harping about the weight issue. Take that person into consideration when setting the pace for a hike. Even when I'm at my ideal weight I'm not a fast walker and I like to hike just for the fun of it. I don't do well with those who rush through a hike.

 

 

[scomman]

I am overwieght due to a medical condition. But I walk two miles a day due the outdor things with my troop and still have a busy lifestyle on top of it. I don't look at my weight as a disability it is something to make me push harder to be accepted.

 

I know from my time in the troop that there are ways to motivate boys who are overweight to meet the requirements. The life guard who does our swim test for instance is about 150 lbs overweight but he is certified lifeguard instructor and enjoys his job.

[Chippewa29]

In addition to working with the Scouts, I also coach at a local high school. I deal with dozens of kids and their fitness is often a factor. The biggest barrier is kids (like adults) don't like to get out of their comfort zones. With all of the conveniences available today, kids never have to get uncomfortable or stretch themselves. Also, our society promotes instant gratification instead of delayed gratification. The poor fitness condition of many of our youth is because getting in good physical shape requires getting uncomfortable and delaying gratification for at least a few weeks (it takes at least that long for the body to physiologically adapt to exercise).

 

In my troop recently, we had a Scout who conveniently had "something to do" the night we did tenderfoot fitness testing (he already had his tenderfoot, but we test the whole troop once a year). He didn't like to exercise (although he likes to be active) and tried to avoid having to get uncomfortable. A few weeks later, we went on a bike trip where the kids road twelve miles. He insisted on staying with his buddies (who are all pretty active) and had a very hard time finishing the ride. Later that night, he was feeling sick with a mild case of heat exhaustion (he was fine the next day). It was a big wakeup call for him, as he didn't realize that his fitness level had declined like that.

 

I've seen many cases where parents sign notes excusing their kids from PE classes at school because of some physical "ailment". In almost all cases, that only makes the problem worse. I laugh every year when at the beginning of our season, there are a number of kids who have trouble completing a ten minute jog for a warmup. Most of them say "I can't do this because I have asthma". It is amazing how later in the season, many of them say "I can't believe how my asthma has gone away". They don't really have asthma. They are just out of shape. Tom Dolan, who won the 400 meter IM in swimming at the 1996 Olympics, not only had asthma, but also had a smaller than normal windpipe. He could bring in about 30% of the oxygen a "normal" person could. He had a double reason not to exercise. However, instead, he became one of the best athletes in the world.

 

Physical fitness (one of the core values of Scouting) is something anyone can do. Not everyone is going to run a marathon, but I've seen people who were in wheelchairs do some type of exercise each day. Kids need to be active from an early age and sometimes need to be pushed so they get used to being uncomfortable. Getting uncomfortable is the only way they will get better. Nothing else will do it. Writing an excuse note or trying to waive requirements because a Scout has a hard time doing something harms the Scout long term.

 

One more story before I sign off on this. There was a Scout I knew growing up that had arms that were only about a foot long and about as big around as a thumb (he had no hands). He got his Eagle award and had to have the swimming tests waived. However, he had them waived early in his Scouting career after making many attempts to complete the swimming requirements. He got his Eagle at fifteen and continued to work on his swimming skills. Although last I heard (I haven't seen him since we were in high school), he still couldn't do the lifesaving skills, but when we were seventeen, he managed to swim the 150 yard requirement needed for swimming merit badge using his legs almost exclusively. When he did that, people lost a lot of excuses as to why they couldn't do it.

[SagerScout]

I'm like Laura, quite overweight and with torn cartilage in my knee, and slogging after those kids at summer camp was hard on me. No reason not to do it, but it was a lot more effort for me than my slim husband. On the other hand, he's a smoker and I had to talk him in on the last 25 yards of the swim test as he was really wheezing.

 

I'm with Quixote though, I strongly believe everyone should learn to swim, and swim well, whether or not they become water sports enthusiasts. It's a survival skill, and no fair saying "I just will avoid the water." Boats overturn, rivers rise, kids fall into pools, drunks fall into lakes.

 

Being overweight can be an ADVANTAGE in swimming, at least for staying afloat - dump me in a lake without a boat and guaranteed I'll be the last one to go down. I have good flotation, provided by the Lord, and an efficient stroke. I can go for miles, if slowly.

 

We just had widespread flooding with loss of life in our area, and it is my belief that the folks most likely to panic and make poor decisions are the ones who have no understanding of the power of water. In other words, the non-swimmers.

 

Julia

[Quixote]

An interesting aside...

 

My 1st year scout last night was talking about merit badges required for eagle and i pointed out that he should go for swimming "too hard" he said - my response was "not for someone who can swim - which you can do". He is about 25 pounds overweight btw and has taken swimming lessons at the Y for the last 2 years and can just now swim with his face in the water.

 

Swimming is a life skill.

[Rooster7]

I have one caution for Scouters, and in particular the Scouts about to take the swimming merit badge at summer camp. I have seen good aquatics staffs and bad ones. That is to say, I've seen boys flounder in the water with little instruction and even less encouragement offered by the instructors. This can be devastating to a boy, who is embarrassed by failure, and/or cannot deal with the prospect of receiving a partial blue card as a result of that failure. In other years, I have seen the instructors go to great lengths to provide proper instruction, to ensure that boy continues to receive that instruction in and out of the pool, to encourage him to complete the task, and to make him feel successful even if he could not complete the requirement. In short, pray for a good aquatics staff, but prepare all of your boys for a bad one (i.e., let them know that a partial is acceptable, tell them how they can complete the badge back home, make sure you have arrangements to do so, be there for him if he fails to complete a requirement). As an adult Scouter, my most painful memories associated with Scouting is watching 11- and 12-year-old boys come to tears because they struggled with the swimming merit badge at camp. Most of the time, if the aquatics staff was better trained, their struggles, fears, and tears could have been greatly reduced. The "inflation exercise" was a particularly heart wrenching event for some of the boys, and for the adults that cared for them. By the way, this is also a great time to teach the older boys about being "helpful" and "kind". Use your veteran scouts to encourage and comfort the younger boys while they struggle to earn this badge.

 

I know I went off track a little bit, but this warning seems especially appropriate for over-weight kids. Just a word of caution based on my experiences at BSA summer camps...

 

[Quixote]

Rooster,

 

Do you think this is one of the reasons that current scouts think the Swimming Merit badge is so hard? Quality of Instructors / Counselors?

 

Quixote

[acco40]

I always thought that one of the requirements for scout leaders was at least 20 lbs of extra heft!! I sure qualify! What is the thirteenth point of the scout law? A scout is hungry!

 

Seriously, physical education has seem to have taken a back seat in our society. Nobody questions remedial reading for a boy who can't read in the 4th grade. But PE classes have been cancelled in many school districts for lack of funds. Very few require PE every day. We tend to downplay physical requirements too much in my opinion.

 

On my honor, I will do my best

To do my duty to God and my country and obey the Scout Law;

To help other people at all times;

TO KEEP MYSELF PHYSICALLY STRONG, mentally awake and morally straight.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[Rooster7]

Quixote,

 

I don't know...I just know what I've seen at various BSA camps. Some instructors are great. Some have no clue. If you go to a camp that has the latter, be prepared for some tears by your weaker swimmers (and in some cases, even from your good swimmers). My main point is, talk to your boys (or son) ahead of time. Don't scare them off, but prepare them for some possibilities. If they go into camp thinking I'll probably receive a partial, their failures (if any) are not as devastating. And if they can get the whole enchilada, well then they're walking on air as they leave camp. Also, if you see a kid having a really bad time of it, be there at poolside to console him. I've seen a lot boys upset, mostly after the "inflation" exercise. JMHO.

 

[yaworski]

Like many Americans in their mid-40s, I'm fat. Yep. Fat. Not overweight. I passed that long ago. Why am I fat? For the same reason that anyone is fat. I eat more than I burn. I don't care about medical conditions, blah, blah, blah. It is all simple thermodynamics. If you eat 2000 calories and only burn 1000 in a day, you'll gain a pound every three or four days.

 

Is it easy to cut our food? Nope. Is it easy to increase activity? Nope.

 

Do I view it as a disability? I suppose that it technically is but it isn't one that should be given special accomodations. I can hike, I can swim.

 

 

[lasteagle83]

Is heft a disability? Possibly so, if it deems one inable to perform certain tasks. Same as those with poor eyesight, hearing, or ambulatory ailments.

 

Is it preventable? To some extent; geneticists are just now learning that the "excuse" of "fat genes" is more reality than most would care to accept. Stick it in the DNA code next to hair color and eye color, right next to height. However, a kid with rail-thin parents who worships the can of Pringles next to the Play Station isn't helping himself a bit.

 

Does it keep one from being "physically strong"?

HARDLY. You 200 pounders try carrying around an extra hundred pounds or so all day, and you'll soon gain some respect for the true strength of those who are heavy - leg strength, back strength, and other areas of the body that are "developed" by default, and simply "disguised" under a layer of unattractive flesh.

 

Is it a logical reason not to try to better oneself, or meet requirements? NO. Like the example of the Eagle above who finally passed the swimming test, you should NEVER give up. Large persons fight for respect and acceptance all day long; for me it was my Scout experience as a youth that helped prepare me for an adulthood of being a person of size.

 

Enough PC crap - I'm LARGE. 300+ in fact. And, while it DOES limit some things I am able to do, it certainly doesn't limit my determination to DO MY BEST, nor does it limit my determination to BE PHYSICALLY STRONG. Look at my parents and grandparents and you'll see the Big Belly Special pulling out of the station, and heading straight down the tracks for me. Even with diet and exercise, it arrived with middle age (36), along with its genetic cargo of diabetes. Preventable? Not likely. Treatable? In some ways; diabetics cannot readily adapt to some of the "wonder diets" out there without risking serious problems. So, you have a condition that can be partially related to size, but won't let you easily address the size without causing more problems.

 

I have applied to a couple of local troops recently as an adult leader, and never hear back from them. Quite frankly, I feel like it is my size that has prevented me from rejoining an organization that meant so much to me growing up. My wife and I do not have children; this was going to be my way of working with youth and helping them to grow as young men.

 

Which is quite ironic, if one looks at the Scout equipment catalog and looks at the 3X and 4X shirts, and pants up well in the mid-50 waist sizes.

 

Soap box retired for the night........