At what point can boys start working towards their next rank?

[ScoutNut]

"This is further complicated by the fact that our council does not accept rank advancement after May 31"

 

Why on earth not? When do they start selling rank awards again? Have you considered going to a different Council's Scout Shop? Or, purchasing the rank awards earlier, when your council is still selling them?

 

If you look at the report card that your son brings home on the last day of class, it states that he has been promoted to the next grade level. It does not give an "as of" date in 2 weeks, a month, or the following Fall. The promotion is effective when he gets that report card.

 

If you read thru the Cub Scout Leader Book, it specifically states that if a boy has not earned his rank award by the end of school, he may take some extra time to work on it if he wishes. The only stipulation is that he can only work in ONE program at a time, so he can not do any work in his new handbook, until he has finished with his old one. Also, this extension is for the RANK AWARD ONLY, not electives, or other level specific awards.

[deerfieldmom]

just curious,

 

Our council now has online advancement. You can no longer go into the council store fill out the 3 part paper form and buy the ranks or pick them up at any retail outlets that carry bs & gs items.

No one checked, no one asked. You could pick up any amount in anticipation and simply add the extras to your patch/awards stash for next year.

 

The online advancement is done right onto our district's website. Only one person in the pack has the password. When you enter the info that little Johnny has completed his rank, you are actually advancing him on the council's software. You are certifying that he has done it. One reason I heard for this change is to stop parents from being able to go into the store and pick up the ranks themselves and say their child completed the work. (The capacity is there for all awards cubs can get but right now they are just requiring ranks to be done that way).

 

They are just finishing up the first year so I can't tell you when the official date is that the program rolls over everyone on record to the new rank.

 

Has anyone elses council gone paperless?

 

 

[ScoutNut]

Many councils use the online Advancement system. However, since not everyone has Internet access just yet, many also use paper forms.

 

My Council uses both and always required a filled out (& signed) Advancement Report in order to purchase Rank Awards.

 

What we will usually do is purchase the Rank award for every member of the den at the same time. Then we have it on hand for whenever they finish. If they do not finish, it goes into our badge stock to be used for replacing lost badges.

 

 

[acco40]

One reason I heard for this change is to stop parents from being able to go into the store and pick up the ranks themselves and say their child completed the work.

 

Excluding Webelos, it is my understanding that "Akela" may sign off for Cub Scout requirements and that may include a Scouts parent(s). Therefore, the above "reason" makes no sense to me. A parent can still sign everything off and go the the pack advancement chair.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Internet advancement helps shift key entry burden from secretarial staff at Councils to volunteers. It really is that simple.

 

From my perspective, unit inputting advancement to ScoutNet is a blessing, you've not seen how some folks records look. I've seen ranks earned but never posted in Cubbing, and MBs not earned but posted in Boy Scouting.

 

Akela works at Tiger, Wolf and Bear. It's an element of the adult association method. At Webelos, the parent starts stepping out, and the Scouter (DL/ADL) steps in on requirement approval. When the youth moves up to Boy Scouting, ideally an older youth will approve the requirement, with a few exceptions being reserved for adults (the 2d Class requirement to visit a significant public official comes to mind).

 

 

[DanKroh]

meschen wrote: "This is further complicated by the fact that our council does not accept rank advancement after May 31"

 

Scoutnut replied: "Why on earth not? When do they start selling rank awards again? Have you considered going to a different Council's Scout Shop? Or, purchasing the rank awards earlier, when your council is still selling them?"

 

Scoutnut, I believe the issue here is that the Council will not accept the record of the rank advancement after May 31, because, as others have mentioned, National advances the records of registered cubs to the next rank on June 1. Even if the pack doesn't hold their graduation until June 15th, in the eyes of National, the boy has graduated on June 1; therefore, all rank advancement resets on June 1.

 

Scoutnut also writes: "My Council uses both and always required a filled out (& signed) Advancement Report in order to purchase Rank Awards. What we will usually do is purchase the Rank award for every member of the den at the same time. Then we have it on hand for whenever they finish. If they do not finish, it goes into our badge stock to be used for replacing lost badges."

 

Ok, I'm confused. If you have to have a signed Advancement Report to purchase the rank badge, how do you purchase rank badges for boys that have not actually finished their rank requriements? Are you fudging your Advancement Reports to record that boys have advanced who haven't actually finished their requirements (so you can purchase the award)? If so, what do you do if a boy doesn't actually finish, but Council then thinks he has?

 

Please clarify?

[Scouting Mom]

Our Council mandated that everyone use online advancement as of June 1, 2008. HOWEVER....

 

There is a glitch in the system that I don't think they've fixed yet that prevents inputting Tiger rank after the boys have been moved up by ScoutNet. This is the only rank affected. For example, if you have a Tiger who earns his rank in June (He was almost done and granted a little more time, which someone already pointed out is permissible according to the Leader guide) then there is no way to go back and input that rank online. If the same thing happened to a wolf or a bear scout, the system would allow the rank to be inputted. Therefore the only way to file an advancement report for this Tiger is on a manual form.

 

Council won't like it, they may tell you it's a no-no, but I've dealt with them enough to know that the people at council, just like those at the pack level are in it for the boys. They will make it happen because it's the right thing to do. You just have to make them understand the problem.

 

As far as "going paperless," it'll never happen. Computers created more paperwork, not less. Any council that is trying that will see the error of that very soon. We are still required to turn in the printout from the internet advancement program in order to get all of the rank materials. In fact, they used to just hold back the rank cards and sell the badges off of the shelf, but after 30 or 40 years of this practice, they finally discovered that some packs don't care about the cards and end up not filing advancement reports at all. This created a huge mess when everything went to online advancement, so now they will be holding the rank badges and only exchanging them for advancement reports (Which I realize most of the country has always done.)

 

 

[meschen]

ScoutNut wrote "If you read thru the Cub Scout Leader Book, it specifically states that if a boy has not earned his rank award by the end of school, he may take some extra time to work on it if he wishes. The only stipulation is that he can only work in ONE program at a time, so he can not do any work in his new handbook, until he has finished with his old one. Also, this extension is for the RANK AWARD ONLY, not electives, or other level specific awards."

 

ScoutNut, I just took a (very) quick look at the Leader Book and didn't spot this. What section is this in? I would love to make this a part of our official Pack policy.

[PACK15NISSAN]

I am not sure what our Council's policy is, but our Pack puts a cutoff date for achievements and awards one week before our crossover (usually first week in June). The is allows our Advancement Chair to have to input everything in the computer and get everything. She doesn't make a whole lot of exceptions on this either.

 

Our Council uses online advancement but they still except paper forms too. I don't know what who said it, but having parents go and get ranks and other advancements when their child has finished has never been a problem in our council. Our council will only let the CM, ACM, and Advancement Chair pick up awards, unless they call and give permission to some one else. Parent don't have an option to just get it, in fact neither do DL's.

 

I know this is not on the original topic but it is where it has ended up. I hope more council's move toward online advancement, this keeps a backup, not just a card in case something is lost. My son is now a Webelos and got his new uniform and I have to gather up all his cards before I can go and get new ranks for the uniform (kind of stinks).

[infoscouter]

meschen - the reference you are looking for is in the Cub Scout Leader Book (your source of all knowledge and wisdom

;-0) on page 18-4. "Each boy should be encouraged to earn the rank for his grade (or age). If a boy is close to earning a badge of rank when the school year ends, he may be allowed a few extra weeks to finish before going on to the next rank. Earning the badge will give him added incentive when he tackles the next rank."

[ScoutNut]

DanKroh states - "Ok, I'm confused. If you have to have a signed Advancement Report to purchase the rank badge, how do you purchase rank badges for boys that have not actually finished their rank requriements? Are you fudging your Advancement Reports to record that boys have advanced who haven't actually finished their requirements (so you can purchase the award)? If so, what do you do if a boy doesn't actually finish, but Council then thinks he has?"

 

 

Yes, the Advancement Report is "fudged". When the Advancement Chair purchases the rank awards, he will purchase them for the entire den at one time. As I stated, if for whatever reason, a boy does not earn his Tiger, Wolf or Bear rank, the badge goes into the Pack's stock of patches to be used to replace a lost badge.

 

The dates for rank awards for Tiger, Wolf and Bear are not "critical". Putting on the report that a boy earned his rank in February, when he actually earns it in April will not affect any future awards he earns. The same is true for weather or not they are earned at all. If the report states that Johnny earned Wolf in March, but he never actually earns it, his future in Scouting will not be affected one way or another.

 

The Webelos rank, and AOL, however, are date critical, and are only listed as earned.