kids in our den going to camp a different week

[gcan]

We would really like them to work on the things that we need them to work on (they joined late and have some catch-up to do, as well as need x pin to finish of y badge). But they weren't able to go to camp the same week as the rest of the kids and 2 leaders.

Would it be ok if we came on the first day of thier camp and asked the leader to try to cover some of this stuff? I can easily give them a page of things we want worked on, but I can totally see how that would be a very obnoxious move, lol. Each den gets a spreadsheet of things to work on during the week, but does have plenty of leeway to skip and/or add to that list. We plan to use our down-time to work on maps for Traveller, ID-ing rocks and trees and plants, ect. for Naturalist and Geologist, but this isn't stuff 'n the list'. It's not hard stuff to do, you just have to remember to do it while you are hiking from archery to the waterfront.

I'd like to ask the leader to maybe try to make sure the kids get to some of this (like actually earning aquanaut, not just splashing around during water sessions), but I really don't want to offend a volunteer, much less add to thier work.

Is there ANY way I could approach this? We plan on talking to the lifeguards and the BB range super., but with 100 boys per session I can definatly understand if they aren't able to remember to do it.

[ScoutNut]

Talk to the parents, give them the list of things their sons should be working on, and make it their (& their sons) responsibility.

 

 

[Karen_216]

Call the camp director to see if you can find out the leaders they will be with and if you can get their contact info. Contact BEFORE camp if you can- give them your list from the den but don't be pushy. I would not go down on first day or bother the camp staff. Give a list to the parents like suggested as well and leave it at that. They will learn many things and may not do the same items that the den has done but does that matter? They will still make progress.

[ElyriaLeader]

I know our council camp puts out a brochure for the camp sessions that has a list of what achievments/activity pins the boys will be working on while at camp, is there one of these available for this camp? have you seen it? or are these items in addition to the ones the camp already offers? camp staffs are usually pretty good at covering all the available items.

[Pack212Scouter]

Talk to the parents about what should be worked on. Also, put one of your leaders going to that session "in charge" of the session. They can remind parents of what should be worked on and also keep the group together. Camp is alot more fun when experienced as a group.

[Basementdweller]

Getting pins, belt loop and patches isn't a race. Who care how many they earn as long as they are having fun and are enjoying it.

 

I think your way out of line. Your boys represent less than 10% of the attendance at the camp and what you are demanding is way more than your share of time and attention. The camp already has a program in place and they worked hard to develop it. Your telling them their program isn't good enough.

 

There is no way the boys can earn archery or BB at one camp unless they are already experienced. I have seen parents and leaders rubber stamp it if they participate, but they should to be able to answer the questions and demonstrate understanding.

 

I do admire your enthusiasm, as pointed out contact the head of the program and ask for help. You have no right to demand it.

 

 

[gcan]

Basement dweller, why do you think they can't earn both bb and archery? I don't know how your camps are run, but our kids do both every day for 5 days (as well as fishing, swimming, boating every day).

I personally don't care how much bling these kids have, but the boys do. When 6 out of 8 kids have stuff that the other two don't believe me the 2 notice. especially if it's something they WANT to do, or can, but weren't offered. Nothing sours a kid on scouting faster than feeling 'left out', and believe me they ahve thier own very narrow versions of "what's fair".

 

We will get the exact same sheet the week before, so hopefully most of the stuff will be on there; we'll know what isn't, at least. And hopefully it'll be easy stuff that we can work on outside of camp... but we can't do bb's, or archery, or boating on our own. And if we don't specifically ASK to work on aquanaut, the teenager lifeguards won't bother... and we don't have access to a deep enough pool to do it otherwize.

Typically the den is run the way the leader in charge wants to run it, which means depending on your leader you could do absolutly nothing or knock out half the belt loops. We try to 'tweak' the list for the kids in the den (the camp den, not our 'real' den)... if they all have soccer BL's, we do flag football instead. If they all have the fishing BL, we work on the pin.

 

Anyways, thanks for the suggestions! We go this coming week, I will try to find out who the leader will be for the week in question. (we aren't sending anyone, although one of the dads will be able to go 2x) But you all answered my main question- how to approach this tactfully and avoid pissing anyone off, lol!

[Basementdweller]

here is why

 

1 Explain the rules for Safe BB gun shooting you have learned to your leader or adult partner.

2 Demonstrate to your leader or adult partner good BB gun shooting techniques, including eye dominance, shooting shoulder, breathing, sight alignment, trigger squeeze, follow through.

3.Practice shooting at your district or your council camp in the time allowed.

 

With out leading them by the hand, I not one of the boys at the camp I attended had any right to claim it. Not one, my son included. The range master asked questions and drug the answers out (parents whispering to the boys). I expect for them to be able to be asked the question and provide a relatively complete answer. These boys were from wolves and bears. Our camp was 4 days with 4 days of shooting.

 

Is that sufficient to qualify?

[PACK15NISSAN]

During our Summer Camp I worked on achievements (Webelos Badges) that the camp didn't list on our papers. They did some as groups in activites but during den time I worked on getting some of the badges done rather than I few here and there that the camp suggested (that just means those boys have to do it twice, once at camp and once during den back at their own Pack). I was completely open to ideas on what to do, I would have welcomed any ideas or suggestions (I just wanted to help the boys toward their badges it didn't matter so much as how or which ones). A good leader won't be offended by your input especially since you are doing for concerns for your boys not because you think you know how to do it better than him/her.

 

Here is a suggestion if things don't go the way you would prefer. Let the boys who have completed the badge during camp be a PL and/or APL (rotating if necessary) while you work with the other boys to get the badge. This is a win-win for the boys. All get a chance to lead succesfully (with something they know), keeps those who have done it from being bored, and lets everyone get the same badges.

 

I know how bad it can be to have some kids with one badge, and some with another. You end up with 'mine is better' and 'I want that one' type division. You may be able to take a bad situation and use it to build them as a team.

[gcan]

wow, basementdweller, our kids aren't allowed on the range without being able to explain the rules on thier own. fyi, the requirement states "Explain the rules for Safe BB gun shooting" not 'recite from memory'. Remember, kids aren't good at memorizing (unless it's pokemon, lol), but they can certainly retain information when they are required to give it some thought. Maybe you could research a new range master? sounds like he isn't real concerned with safety if he's letting kids shoot before they know the rules.

 

Nissan, thank you for the suggestions! I'm always open to other leaders' requests and suggestions, but I was beginning to feel like flexibility isn't a real common trait. I honestly don't care what we work on all week, as long as the boys want to do it! Our 'lesson plans' could go right out the window if the kids aren't interested in doing the stuff, or if they mostly already have that bL/pin. Hm... I wonder if we could ask the parents of kids not in our regular den to let us take the kids' books home???

[PACK15NISSAN]

I found that most of the classes or activities where focused on having fun not necessarily earning anything, which I like. During games and sports I talked to the guy running it and we played Ultimate Frisby and Wiffle Ball instead of Kickball so that we could earn some BL's toward the Sportsman pin. He told me he didn't care so much what we did, he just had ideas and was happy for us to play anything (he learned to play Ultimate too).

 

The only class that was directed specifically at achievements was First Aid and geared toward whatever rank was being taught. By the end of the week the boys earned Sportsman and Readyman (I did the CC during den time) and they never even noticed they where earning pins, because they where having fun. When something is made into, now we are working on this for this achievement it can lose its fun, you just have to adapt what is being done to suite achievement not the other way around.

 

I am not saying this is what you are doing, but I noticed that is what a lot of leaders do. Camp ends up being a week long plow for achievements instead of fun.

 

I went to our Resident Camp (Webelos) training this weekend and one of the papers that is passed out to parents says (not an exact quote) the main purpose of camp is to have fun and learn new things not to do achievements, some achievements will be earned throughout the week but it is secondary to the main purpose. That is why our Pack has no Webelos 2's going to Resident Camp because they didn't have fun last year. In the end my boys may earn 3 or 4 pins over the summer between both Day and Resident camp but if they don't earn any that is fine too.

[gcan]

thanks for the FYI! I will make doubly sure we don't talk about "earning this" and "you need to get that". Most of the time the boys have no idea, we just use compasses and a camp map while we hike, sportsmanship while they are lining up for a game, art projects and drama during 'den time', ect. My own kid can't learn when you sit him down and lecture him, so I certainly can't do that with other people's children!

 

I think we figured it out, though. Our main concerns were Aquanaut and the Outdoor badges (which our boys only need to complete one or two things). We spoke to both the head lifeguard and the boy scout in charge of the Nature/hiking/woodsy section, and I feel pretty confident that they will be able to work on what we 'need'. It just seems like such a shame to let perfectly good teaching opportunities go to waste because noone thought to cover one or two things!

While the kids are splashing around in the pool, those that WANT to work on aquanaut will have the opportunity to do so- and apparently jumping in with a PFD, learning rescue techniques, and rowing the rowboat are a big deal to these boys- our kids all clamored for thier turn, and the lifeguards elected to do it with every Webelos den because the kids had such a blast doing it.

 

Earning badges doesn't have to be work! The kids have a blast when we have a program, and usually don't even notice they learned something until we revisit it later that day.