FScouter Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I see your 2 posts were only 1 second apart. That's a lot of coffee! Could be a momentarily stuck mouse button or key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eamonn Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 SctDad With respect to you and every other forum member. This forum is at times a great resourse. But it is not really the best place for advise. I was going out of my way to as nice as possible. But the plain truth is. Games of chance are not allowed. Having a rule that deals with games of chance other than one that states that they are prohibited. Would be very silly and would go against the guidelines set by the BSA. SO DON'T DO IT !! My advise to you was to find someone in your Council who can help get you on the right road. The links I provided do show where the BSA stands on this and does offer some insight on how to go about making a Pack Budget. When I read that you are wearing so many hats, I can't help thinking that if any Pack needs the help and support from the District -The Pack you serve does. The Pack seems to have a lot more problems than just funds. Many forum members have had dealings with parents who are hard to deal with. We can all pick up tips from their experiences. Many forum members at times express their opinions about BSA Guidelines and rules that they see as being wrong or just plain daffy. Their opinion is just that.An opinion. Eamonn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Winger Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 "Everything not covered by BSA publications can be handled by applying the 12 points of the Scout Law... " I don't know about that . . . quite the oversimplification if you ask me. Deadline for popcorn orders . . . not covered by Scout Law Deadline for popcorn money . . . not covered by Scout Law That's just two. I could go on but I'm wearied wi writing and I fain wad lie doon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eolesen Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 C'mon Wing... The deadline for the fundraiser isn't going to be the same in perpetuity. If it's going to change from year to year, it doesn't belong in the bylaws. Bylaws can't be changed without a vote and a quorum. KB6, I don't disagree with the point about most parents showing little interest in reading the source pubs, and many units I've worked with don't bother to invest in a library of pubs for the committee and SM staff to refer to. Our troop has both a P&P we provide to new scouts & parents, but it is separate from the bylaws. In my view, bylaws exist to instruct the committee how to conduct troop business, and should only need to be referred to when common sense fails. P&P are there to give direction to parents and scouts on how the troop functions, and that's going to differ greatly from unit to unit. We'll wind up with three pages of bylaws once we're done gutting them. Our Scout/parent handbook is about 23 pages, some of it regurgitated from BSA pubs for the same reason you've mentioned. From firsthand experience, you have to accept a certain amount of risk whenever you regurgitate from BSA pubs -- it's not going to be a matter of if you're out of synch when one of National's publications change, but when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Winger Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 " Bylaws can't be changed without a vote and a quorum." Who says? No vote is required for anything in a troop. " The deadline for the fundraiser isn't going to be the same in perpetuity." Sure it can. "Unless an extension is announced, popcorn order forms must be turned in before noon on the fourth Sunday following their distribution." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kb6jra Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Wow, this is weird coincidence but I've just been asked to work with the committee for our Council to review our bylaws. Seems it's not been done for at least 10 years or so. This brings me to an odd realization...I'm definitely not joining any thread dealing with ditch digging or latrine scrubbing anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-in-KC Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 A Council is a different beast from a unit. It's a corporation of the State it resides in, and is subject to their non-profit/not-for-profit and corporation laws. Yeah, kb6, you've achieved Permanent Latrine Orderly status being asked to serve on that committee... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 GW, do you want any o' mi leftover haggis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Winger Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I haven't had haggis for nigh unto 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Ye Pow'rs, wha mak mankind your care,And dish them out their bill o fare,Auld Scotland wants nae skinking ware That jaups in luggies: But, if ye wish her gratefu prayer, Gie her a Haggis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SctDad Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 OK here is the deal We are a small pack, in a small farming community. We have, as of right now 1 Tiger, 4 Wolves, and 1 Bear. We are not part of a high dollar community. We are trying to earn money so we can get a pack flag and pay for registration. We also need to buy chairs and tables for our scout room. I come here often for help as I am new at the leading aspect of scouting. It seems like every time I get several remarks about how I am doing things wrong, or not doing them right. I am trying. I am limited on resources and people. We saved this pack from being shut down and now we are trying to get things straight. Please give me some leeway and understand that we are trying to get boys in the area interested in scouting again. I am trying ans I ask for help on many subjects. Sometimes they are subjects that I have already searched the internet, forums, pubs, and regs for. (Sorry a little frustrated about how everyone is more interested in our fundraising techniques than the subject that I brought up.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Winger Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Our reaction would have been much the same if you had said, "We're selling Trails End Popcorn and we told the boys that if they sold $500 in popcorn, they'd be advanced to the next rank immediately." The problem of making everyone understand that getting free camp or free registration has string attached is pretty simple. Just write everything down in clear terms and ask, "Does anyone have any questions?" Your raffle is a fait accompli, so move on and for the next fundraiser, make sure that you know the rules. Simply put, fund raising must be done by selling something of value such as popcorn, first aid kits, Christmas trees or even lawn mowing or snow shoveling. The rules are a bit more complicated when it comes to wearing uniforms whilst fundraising. Individual units may not solicit monetary donations to support themselves. However, your charter organization may solicit donations to support their youth programs. Also, their is no rule prohibiting a Charter Org from holding a raffle and then giving the money to their unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-in-KC Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 A Spaghetti or chili supper does wonders. A unit car wash can help. Cubs like to play with wet hoses in the summertime Going to thrift shops, even if it means a run into a bigger town, can help buy those tables and chairs inexpensively. Thrift shops have helped many a Pack and Troop resource their "experienced" uniform closet. Here you can find the fund raising application: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34427.pdf Look at the rules on the reverse. Complete the questions on the frontside. Honor the deadlines. You didn't mention who your chartered partner is. As COR, one of your duties is to present the unit needs to the Executive Officer of the Chartered Partner. Many partners help their units by underwriting the National and unit flags! On a personal note, as COR, one of your major duties is to recruit leaders for your unit. COR/CM/DL... and a member of committee? That's a recipe for early burnout in Scouting adult leadership. I assume you have a son somewhere along the trail. You want to be able to enjoy the journey he's going to take. BTW, while we encourage the Scouting uniform, if family circumstances in your area make it prohibitive, an activity uniform (Pack t-shirt or sweatshirt) is a Plan B. Not the best Plan B, but workable. Finally, here's info on establishing a Pack annual budget: http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/resources/packbudget.aspx(This message has been edited by John-in-KC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SctDad Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 I have been trying to recruit new leaders for the pack. the biggest thing I get is I don't have the time. I find that hard to believe but if that is what they want to say than I am not going to argue. I registered for positions so that we could save the pack. But the boys still needed someone to step up and say "I will lead" that just happened to be me. And the parent that said that things cost too much, quit coming right after paying for their registration. The only things that we had that cost anything from there were $8 for the PWD car and it would have been $20 for the camping trip. She never asked. And some of the other leaders and myself would have made exceptions or paid their way if she had only asked OR participated. As for our charter, they provided us with the flag pole and it was their idea. I know we still have a lot to learn. John, the Speghetti dinner would be great, if I could get some help. The parents are always busy. Everybody wants the program, but they are reluctant to help. On another note, I have talked with another parent, and he seems like he is going to be interested in helping, just not being a registered leader. Hopefully things turn around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 If GW don't want it I'll take it OGE! Well, the bylaws could read the money for popcorn is due 2 weeks for the end of the sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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