Cub Residents camp Question.

[Basementdweller]

After months of recruiting I gave up and registered my son and I for cub residence camp at the local district camp. Well just before the registration deadline the cub master registers another boy to go..... hmmmm, To me it seems to violate two deep leadership and to be real honest it ticks me off he signed this boy up with out asking me first.

 

Before I tick a bunch of people off and tell them I will not be responsible for him with out another adult.

 

Will the camp team me up with another group to achieve two deep leadership? Lets face it I don't want to have the boy lose his registration fee, and I don't want to show up and be hassled about being shy an adult. I have been asked at this camp whether my son was my son or not in a one on one situation. I do not want a week of it.

 

What can I do to avoid this in the future?

[gwd-scouter]

You didn't mention the rank of your son, but our Cub Resident Camp requires one adult per Cub Scout (Wolf and Bear) and one adult per three Webelos Scouts. Whatever the rank of your son, I think it's incredibly presumptuous of your Cubmaster to sign up a boy assuming you would be in charge of him. Perhaps your Cubmaster does not know the Scout needs an adult partner?

 

You also mention that this is a local district camp. I always thought Resident Camp was a Council event. Also that you do not want a week of it. Our Resident Camp is only four days. You don't mean day camp, do you? If day camp, then a Scout may register without an adult.

[Pack212Scouter]

First, this was rather presumptious of the Cubmaster.

 

Secondly, generally speaking, Cub Resident Camp (Wolves and Bears) require an adult guardian to be with the Cub. Webelos Resident Camp usually requires a 1 to 3 leader/Cub ratio. Since at Webelos Resident Camp, they usually stay in their own tent, you could technically get away with a 1-3 ratio and only one adult, although you should be very careful to maintain no one-on-one. In this situation "two-deep" would only apply to travel with the boys since there would be other adults at camp. A prefered situation would be two leaders from your Pack. If you are talking about Day Camp, usually an adult is not required outside of drop-off & pick-up and you would not be responsible for the Cub.

[rjscout]

Things must vary a lot between councils. Our resident camp requires two adults for a pack/den registering a group of up to 10 boys and an extra adult for every five boys above ten. Scouts can register as an individual and they will be placed with another group. This is my first year of attending resident camp as a leader. We actually have three leaders for less than fifteen boys, so I am not sure if they will assign other boys into our group, or if they will notify us. I would assume that your son and the other boy would have been registered as individuals.

 

I'm looking forward to camp.

[ccjj]

Our Resident Camps have a 1 to 4 ratio, with a minimun of 2 adults. We do get many parent/child combos. If the unit can't meet the ratio, we will place them with another unit to help. I often get calls from units that they are having trouble getting a second adult, and want to send 2-3 boys to camp. As long as they ask and are up front about it, I will put them with a unit that I know has enough adults. They just have to be responsible for the boys they brought.

 

ccjj

[ScoutNut]

Your best bet is to ask your council these questions. Each council runs their summer camps a bit differently.

 

If your CM was able to register this boy as an individual, without a parent, then your camps must have some provision for this. However, unless someone else here is in your council, we have no way of knowing what those provisions are.

 

 

 

[John-in-KC]

RJS...

 

1/1 parent to youth is both a NATIONAL CAMP STANDARD on the camp side and a G2SS mandate on the unit side for Council operated resident camps below Webelos.

 

There can be exceptions: We will have triplets at our camp this summer. Dad supervises all 3.

 

Basementdweller, I'd have a talk with your Council Professionals, with your Unit Commissioner, and with your Cubmaster. You have the right to be comfortable in the camp experience for your own child.

 

BTW, 2-deep is actually covered in the context of all the youth and all the adults at a Resident Camp. Your bigger challenge is the 1/1 ratio.

[ccjj]

Actually, 1:1 is not a national camp standard for resident camps.

 

The last sentence of M-35 states:

The minimun leadership requirements of any Cub Scouting unit attending camp must meet the adult-to-boy ratio of two adults to a maximun of eight boys.

 

 

ccjj

[John-in-KC]

ccjj,

 

While what you cited (14-111) has some governance, there is also another pub:

National Standards for Local Council Family Camping, No. 13-408. It's cited in the references of 2008 National Resident Camp Standards.

 

 

The 1/1 ratio is enshrined as a G2SS standard

http://www.scouting.org/healthandsafety/gss/gss03.aspx

 

 

Cub Scout Overnight Opportunities

 

Cub Scouts may experience overnight activities in venues other than accredited resident camping. There are two categories of Cub Scout overnighters:

Council-Organized Family Camp

 

Council-organized family camps are overnight events involving more than one pack. The local council provides all of the elements of the outdoor experience, such as staffing, food service, housing, and program. These are often referred to as Parent/Pal or Adventure weekends. Council-organized family camps should be conducted by trained leaders at sites approved by the local council. In most cases, the youth member will be under the supervision of a parent or guardian. In all cases, each youth participant is responsible to a specific adult.

 

Overnight activities involving more than one pack must be approved by the council. Council-organized family camps must be conducted in accordance with established standards as given in National Standards for Council-Organized Family Camping, No. 13-408.

 

So does anyone have a copy of 13-408??(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[meschen]

John-in-KC,

 

I respectfully disagree with your interpretation of the Guide to Safe Scouting. A single father with two Cub Scout-age sons is perfectly able to take both boys to a council-organized family camp under G2SS. The rule each youth participant is responsible to a specific adult in no way states that the specific adult can only be responsible for a single youth.

 

While there are many sources where guidelines for adult-to-scout ratio exist, none of them are mandated by BSA policy.

(This message has been edited by meschen)

[John-in-KC]

I was told by my Professional that the rule is 1/1, twins and triplets are known exceptions to that rule.

[rjscout]

Our council resident camp (called Adventure Camp) has the rule:

"In accordance with BSA Youth Protection policies, there must be one adult leader for every five boys and a minimum of two leaders for each unit."

 

Sounds like there is a lot of variance through the districts. Our Pack does have better coverage than that.

[WVCubDad]

Interstingly we just completed our Resident Camp yesterday. I was present for the first session (Sun pm - Wed am) which included 4 Bears, 3 Webelos and 5 leaders. The second session (Wed pm - Fri pm) had 1 Wolf, 3 Webelos and 2 leaders.

 

Our Council's policy as outlined in the Camp Leaders Guide is that the Council follows the 2 deep leadership rule and that specifically for this camp we needed to have "2 leaders for the first 5 boys and 1 additional leader for every additonal 5 scouts when the pack is together."

 

During the first session we had three leaders with the Bears and 2 with the Webelos until Tuesday when one Webelos leader had to go to work. We did not adjust the leaders and none of the Camp staff said anything. After the Bears left along with their leaders, the Webelos continued with their leader taking them to the various activities and our Wolf leader took her son to the Wolf activities. At one point somebody (not sure if it was staff or not) indicated we should have had more leaders. My position is that we met the Camp and National requirements and while this hasn't been addressed to me specifically yet, I will maintain that position.

 

The point of this story is to show that there are wide variations in how camps are run and while it is my preference that there is a 1-1 boy/adult ratio, I won't turn away a boy from having a great camp experience if their parent can't be with them and we meet the outlined requirements for leadership for camp. It actually means I get a tent to myself 8^) since for the last two years we had one boy in my son's den whose parent wasn't able to be at camp (different boy each year) and they were in a tent together.

 

YiS,

 

John Collins

Cubmaster

Pack 13

Shenandoah Area Council