Archery & BB

[Gunny2862]

fgoodwin,

I certainly hope you aren't reading any criticism of anyone else' s range operating procedures into my posts. If you are, I am sorry for the misunderstanding, I am not intending any offense on that or any other point..

I was merely iterating my thoughts: A) That regardless of any politically correct renaming, Range Officials are instructing and supervising the safe and proper use of "Weapons", even if those weapons are "just punching paper" and B) that it might seem weird to some of us who might already be overqualified to run a range that we would be required to go to a NRA course to become a Firearms Instructor to run a Pellet Rifle course for Boy Scouts.

Again, sorry for any confusion.

Edit, I forgot to add that I DID step up and run our Councils Cub Scout Day Camp range last week. Had a great time and had a lot of Cub Scouts perform well in all applicable aspects of BB gun handling. We ( my Scout son and I) also noted that we only had to pump the rifles for about 14 of about 175 of the Scouts due to their inability to safely do so.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

[Gunny2862]

GW,

Absouletly however contextual usage doesn't keep the item from "being" a weapon. Ask the friendly officer who stops you to tell you how impressed he is with your driving when he sees your locked case on the seat on the way to your target match.

Just another guy with an opinion on the issue.

[Gold Winger]

I'm confused. Why would my gun case be on my seat?

[scottteng]

I am sorry I did not mean to imply that military trained RSO's were creating problems on a range. They are mostly respectful and very aware of safety concerns. The adults causing problems were cub scout leaders walking out onto live ranges and giving junior rangemasters a hard time. I have had several former military and police range officers do BSA training while I was running a rifle range and other than the differences in terminology and realizing that boys are not quite the same as adults they are very well trained.

[Gunny2862]

Thanks for that clarification scotteng! I thought maybe that was aimed at prior military also.

I haven't yet had the experience of someone walking out on my range unbidden nor of anyone interfering with my range personnel. But that would cause thre shut down of the range until either of those were dealt with.

By the way the Cub Scout leaders and parents were excellent last week on the range, I'm glad they do what they do for the Scouts.

[hot_foot_eagle]

I, too, have volunteered many times to assist as RO or coach (under supervision of RO). My beef has always been with RO's not being conscious of where barrels are pointing and it doesn't matter if or from whom they have received their certification. If barrels are pointing anywhere other than downrange, there's a safety problem and I'm likely to intervene no matter what capacity I'm operating in on the range - and it has absolutely nothing to do with being prior military.

 

IMO the BB certificaton training is still a waste of time. Perhaps it's just my council, though. What is the training like in other areas?

[Gunny2862]

hotfooteagle,

I can see where it might have had value for a previously uninformed non-shooting parent who was stepping up but other than putting the book and a signed certificate in my hand, It was an extremely low value use of my gas and time to go to the course.

 

The Instructor however was great, an NRA Rangemaster/ Rifle and Pistol Instructor and competitive shooter and hunter he sized us up and gave us all his minimums and gave more individualized time to the uninitiated folks.

[DanKroh]

There is a big difference between Mom or Dad setting up a range (either archery or bb) in their backyard and taking their son to a commercial range where there are NAA or NRA certified instructors running it, very likely to more strict safety standards than I have seen on any BSA range (in my experience).

 

Someone brought up liability. Personally, I think there is a lot more chance for injury to a cub going to a commercial ski slope to earn his snow sports beltloop and pin than at a commercially run shooting range. But they don't restrict that beltloop to council/district events only.

 

Last year, we had two kids who died at local ski slopes from skiing accidents. But none at the commercial shooting ranges in town.

 

We had one boy in our pack who was never able to go to summer camp (which is the only opportunity in our council to earn the shooting sports stuff), because he was in a yearlong program at his school for special needs. But if I had been able to get his parents to take him to the archery range in town, where they teach special needs kids all the time, he could have done it.

 

Personally, I think keeping those programs restricted in Council's way of enticing kids to summer camp. Because none of the other reasons given ever really make sense when you look at them closely.

[ManyHats]

Another issue we have is the instruction to not use the safety. Is that BSA policy or is that just local? When asked we were told the safety is a mechanical device that is prone to fail. I have a problem with the range officials handing a fully loaded gun to a kid without use of a safety. As long as Johnny takes and gun and points it safely, there's no problem but...

[OldGreyEagle]

When I was at Camp School to be a SHooting Sports Director, it was told to us, nay, hammered into us that a safety is a mechanical device and can fail so it is better to assume all guns are ready to fire regardless of safety position. You keep your finer off the trigger until you have your target in the sights and are ready to shoot, only then do you touch the safety. Walking around with your finger on the trigger of a loaded gun is not ok because the safety is on. Now, you might not do that, but a youth may

[ManyHats]

They taught them to NOT use the safety at all. We teach our son to put the safety on, point the gun in a safe direction, load it, get on the target, turn the safety off, then put your finger on the trigger and fire.

It's a double safety, in my opinion.

[John-in-KC]

I think Gunny might back me up on this...

 

Spent too many years carrying an M-16 on patrol. My trigger finger was normally, usually, generally on the pistol grip of my weapon. It could get to the trigger fast enough.

 

Even laying down suppressive fire, there is no need to have your finger always on the trigger.

 

What's one of those maxims? "Friendly fire...isn't."

[Gold Winger]

I'm not a so-jer but in thirty years, about the only times that I've used safeties are with my single action pistols when in a match which requires drawing from a holster or when I'm carrying a single action pistol cocked and locked for personal defense.

[Gunny2862]

John,

It's called "indexing the finger" one places the finger along the frame where it can be quickly slid into position into the trigger guard. An excellent technique for avoiding that accidental discharge if one were to stumble and fall(or many other possible causes) with the firearm.

 

Manyhats,

I, in accordance with my Military AND BSA training teach that the First safety is the active brain of the shooter- especially having a full sense of situational awareness(who is where, what is behind the target,where is my muzzle, is it loaded and/or charged, is the safety on or off etc.), the Second safety is proper firearms handling - to include indexing and carry positions, and the Third safety is the mechanical safety on the firearm.

 

Anyone who is teaching NOT to use the mechanical safety to Scouts is doing what I believe(and was taught from my BSA training source) to be improper instruction, however I also don't believe in RELYING on the mechanical safety, and prefer to think of teaching safety as a layered concept.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

[hot_foot_eagle]

Very well stated, Gunny.

 

We also teach use of the mechanical safety in our council, but that it is not foolproof, and that any gun is to be treated as loaded and ready to fire at all times.