When is a Den too big?

[Karen_216]

Is it a pack rule or a council rule that you can only join the pack affiliated with your school?? A child who switched to another school must switch packs?

Maybe we're lucky in my area to have so many packs and while most children are encouraged to join the pack at their own school I would never turn someone away that was not from the school. What about home schoolers? Most of our kids are from the same school but I have sevaral families that transefferd from another pack to us because they did not feel that pack was offering a real cub scout experience (CM didn't want to be CM adn wqs lackluster- did not participate in council evetns- No Pinewood).These families are among the most activie too. I told the DC to maybe inverstigate the pack on the side to see if there were problems. I hate to see any pack go downhill.

I'd still look around- maybe this is your own CC rule.

BTY- my den has 14. I considered breaking it up but only about 9 are active anyway. The parents are good at helping out and while there may be a few "wild" moments we always get lots done and the boys all say the love it.

[SctDad]

First off, I may be wrong, (I have been before) but who is it for a school or church to tell you which pack to belong to. If you are not happy with the program are you supposed to keep going even if you scout is not gaining from it. I don't think so. If they say that you must do it this way then here is my suggestion, start a new pack. Make your DE's day. Gather enough of the boys and find a new Charter Org. Check with your American legion.

 

Some people bring up some good points about numbers, Army squads can be anywhere fro 7 to 11 (John, sometimes they do not have enough rifleman) FEMA and the national incident command system says span of control is 5 - 7. I think that you should have the CC look at how you are working your program and ask the parents if there is any help that they might suggest.

 

Sorry about your bad luck with your CC

[Lisabob]

The only place I have EVER heard of a person having "mandatory" membership in a particular scouting unit is within some LDS churches, where it is expected that boys of the proper ages will be members of the church's pack/troop/team.

 

Outside of that, it might be unusual in your neck of the woods, but there is no rule saying you can't join a different pack and anyone who tells you otherwise is selling you something. Be careful not to confuse "that's the way it is always done" with "that's the way it has to be."

 

Now there might not be other packs within driving distance if you live in a very rural area - but before you jump to that conclusion, call your council office, ask to speak with your District Executive, and ask him/her directly to provide you with a list of other packs and the contact info for their Committee Chairs, in your area. I know I was surprised to find that the town I live in (not a big town either) supports EIGHT packs!

 

And then, if there really is no alternative, there's still the route SctDad suggests of starting up a new pack in town. This is a lot of work and wouldn't be my first option, but it isn't impossible either.

[ScoutNut]

From your original post, while it sounded like your CC was tactless in how he handled the situation, it seemed that he did what he did in an effort to follow BSA policies. What you asked for was an explanation of what, exactly, the CC's responsibilities were as far as being able to split up a den because you did not feel it was necessary to split your den ("When is a Den too big?").

 

There was no mention of the CC being a tin dictator.

 

If you don't feel that this Pack is good for your son, and you do not feel comfortable moving to another Pack, you DO have another option. You can talk to your District Executive about forming a new Pack. Your DE can help find you a Charter Partner and explain to them their role in Scouting. Since you want to stay separate from the schools, and without any knowledge of your area, some community organizations that make good CO's are - Fraternal Orgs (Elks, Eagles, Moose, etc), Veterans organizations, Farm Bureaus, Conservation Clubs, Tribal Councils, Community Centers, Rotary and Lions clubs, Chamber of Commerce and the YMCA.

 

If you choose to stay in your Pack, contact your Unit Commissioner for help. If you have no UC, give the District Commissioner a call. Your DE should also be brought in. BTW - Your Pack will not be able to re-charter without a registered Cubmaster.

 

[gcan]

I'd be interested to know what the parent who's boy had to switch packs thinks about this. IMO, "what's best for a child" should be determined by the PARENT, not by the CM/CC looking at numbers on paper. If the parents would rather the boy be with his classmates, I would let them know that it was not a decision you were involved in, and would welcome them with open arms should they feel they need to go to the CC and ask to be put back in the den.

Then welcome the CC/CM to a meeting and let him talk to the parents- and find one of them that wants to try a different den. It's not fair to the boys to arbitrarily decide that one of them needs to leave when they were perfectly happy in the first place!!

[gcan]

I'd be interested to know what the parent who's boy had to switch packs thinks about this. IMO, "what's best for a child" should be determined by the PARENT, not by the CM/CC looking at numbers on paper. If the parents would rather the boy be with his classmates, I would let them know that it was not a decision you were involved in, and would welcome them with open arms should they feel they need to go to the CC and ask to be put back in the den.

Then welcome the CC/CM to a meeting and let him talk to the parents- and find one of them that wants to try a different den. It's not fair to the boys to arbitrarily decide that one of them needs to leave when they were perfectly happy in the first place!!