How to handle outings and problematic boys???

[gcan]

I just want to add my 2 cents- I work with foster kids with behavioral issues, and spend the REST of my time surrounded by 10yo boys!

 

You said the boys are already 'in the system'. Are thier parents willing to give you thier therapist, or caseworker, or whomevers' phone number? IMO, the other adults in these boys' lives need to know what's going on, just as you need to know how best to help them/ deal with them, and these people might know.

 

But yes, you can certainly exclude them from activities if thier behavior is affecting the rest of the boys. I would first insist that they have a 1:1 adult with them for activities, whom they must stay with. Make it clear to the parents AND the boys that if this doesn't work (they don't stay with thier adult, they still misbehave), then they will not be able to come on the next activity. Keep in mind that the safety of everyone else is at stake here. Besides, can you really afford to lose the OTHER kids when these two scare them off?

 

Is there ANY adult in the pack whom these kids listen too? All you need is ONE adult whom they want to impress. If you can convince that adult to shadow one of them every week, you might be able to get them to make that connection with an adult that it seems like they have never, ever made.

 

good luck! Professionally, I really hope you don't give up on these kids yet. They really need someone to pay attention to them- I bet they've never ever been complimented in thier lives. Sometimes you really do have to ignore the bad stuff and praise them for sitting still for 5 mintues, you know?

Personally, I try to keep my DS as far as possible from kids like this, and can totally understand your frustration with the situation.

 

Good luck!

[Karen_216]

Basementdweller,

in response to you leaving the pack you have to ask yourself: Other than this are you happy with the pack are your concerns being addressed? If the answer is no then leave the pack and go elsewhere. If this is something you can see blowing over or a situation can be resolved then stay with the pack. If it is just too much to take then take yourself and your son to a place you would be appreciated. visit around to make sure you're not going into something just as bad or worse.

Also- are the leaders trained??

[Basementdweller]

Undecided about moving on, with that being said, We are attending a couple of pack meetings of other packs in June and den meetings of other packs. Ultimately it is my sons choice. With round tables and such it won't be long before the pack knows we are sort of shopping around. I understand that there will be repercussions.

 

The cub master seems supportive, But then I wonder about the parents acceptance,they have been spoke to by most of the pack leadership all stating that they must attend future events with the boys. In the past they have barely slowed the car down when dropping their boys off for events. So we may end up with them whether we want them or not.

 

So how do you deal with that situation(dropped off? Call children's services and have them picked up?

 

Everyone is trained den leaders all the way up. No where in the training was this sort of thing covered. I have taken all the online training, position specific training, Baloo.

 

 

[ScoutNut]

You, as an Asst Cubmaster, do not have the authority to ban the boy or impose any limitations on him. This is not even the responsibility of the Cubmaster.

 

Your Committee Chair and Charter Org Representative should, after a discussion with the boy and his parents, make, and enforce, the rule that the boy can not attend ANY Pack/Den activity without a parent there with him.

 

To prevent the parents from ignoring this rule and dropping him off anyway, there should be someone outside waiting for them.

 

If the parents just drop him off, than he should be taken aside and told to call his parents to come and get him - immediately.

 

Every likely scenario with crazy parents or wild kids can not be covered in training. You would be there 48 hours straight - at least!

 

Youth Protection training covers some things, and Infoscouter quoted the pertinent part of Guide to Safe Scouting which covers others. Finally, you have common sense to tie it all together.

 

Talk to your CC and COR about the situation. Encourage them to bring in your UC (unit commissioner) for more help.

 

BTW - I do not understand why you feel there would be repercussions against you for looking into other Packs? What kind of repercussions? From who?

 

 

[Lisabob]

ScoutNut gave you some good advice about managing the drop off issue - having a greeter outside to catch the parents might help. Someone else (NOT you - the Committee Chair and CM must be involved here and ScoutNut is right that the charter org. should be too) needs to also have a formal sit-down with these parents explaining that their children aren't welcome to attend without a parent in tow.

 

But I do understand your frustration. No, training can't cover everything. It would be very helpful to have some real training in people management though - something to start with, at least, for new leaders. A lot of times cub scouting is the first place where adults have to manage other adults in a non-work setting where you can't just fire/not work with an under-performing or strange person. And it does take some skill. Most of the time the true problem isn't with the boys (yes that can be challenging but at least we have the advantage of age and experience on them, and most of us are also parents). The true difficulty lies in dealing with their parents and in learning to work with adults whose parenting styles are vastly different from one's own.

 

Now that might not be the case for you personally in this situation, basementdweller - but it does seem to be a common issue in cub scouting. I know that it was for me.

[SSScout]

I second everything that has been posited above.

 

From my reading, here are my assumptions: the two boys are brothers or close relatives (cousins? adopted? foster care?). The parent(s) is/are unskilled in parenting or over stressed in the rest of their life or are just following the model their own parents gave them. The boys are doing what they know best: stretching the envelope, looking for their boundaries, unknowingly looking for someone to say NO and make it stick.

 

In a couple of personal experiences, we had to arrange for a meeting between the parents, the child(ren) involved, all the adults involved (in one occassion, 5 teachers, in another two grandparents, two neighbors and two step parents, in a third a SM, a ASM, two other parents) and a neutral "facilitator". We had to confront the parents with the truth of the behavioral situation. In each case, by dint of the weight of the testimony, the child(ren) was made to admit to his/her/their behavior, and the parent(s) were made to see the angelic little urchin(s) in a new light. And the involved adults gained stature in the parent(s) eyes. A plan was crafted, and was followed out. In each case, behavior, grades and attitude improved.

 

Lots of trouble? oh yeah. But ultimately everyone agreed it was worth it. Takes careful planning and finding the right "facilitator".

 

In the mean time, is there any chance of seperating the two into seperate Dens or activities? They probably enjoy feeding off each other . Or are we speaking of TWINS??

[Basementdweller]

You are incorrect in my ability to ban them from events. I will not take responsibility for them. It is that simple. NONE of the other leaders will either so de facto they are banned unless accompanied by a guardian.

 

If that doesn't work, I will stop planning outings or find another pack. Just that simple.

 

They are brothers, not twins. There grandparents are authority figures in the charter organization so nothing will be done from that end. Awarded rank advancements by the CM without doing the work, on and on.

 

IMHO one is a run away risk, he has tried once on an outing, I caught him leaving the property bags in hand. I am not going to sacrifice the future of my family on these kids. There kin will sue and I will lose.

 

 

[ScoutNut]

From your last post, it sounds to me like the problem is not really with the boys (although they are a very blatant symptom) - it is with the Pack itself.

 

You don't have enough boys to have age appropriate den meetings.

 

You have an uninvolved Committee Chair.

 

You have an uninvolved Charter Org Rep (or over involved with the problem kids).

 

You have an uninvolved Cubmaster.

 

The people whose responsibility it is to take care of problems do not want that responsibility.

 

The Pack is not being run according to BSA policies and practices.

 

 

My suggestion is - don't wait - visit some Packs NOW. Pick one that has a good solid BSA program and transfer NOW. Nothing will change in your current Pack because your Pack's leadership (CM/CC/COR) are not willing to change.

 

[Basementdweller]

I all fairness, the Pack is only three years old. Because we are in a rough area of town we meet as a group at a common time. The dens are supposed to be separate, each den has a den leader, but more often than not the den leader doesn't show or has nothing prepared. So I end up with them in the tiger den, I am not the tiger den leader, but the original resigned when he lost his job and went back to school.

 

The CM is also SM is also the Charter org rep and the committee chair. And to be real honest the only reason we are still around is a sense of loyalty and responsibility to him. He needs the help and I don't want to be the one that kills the Pack. Maybe it needs killed, I don't know.

[SSScout]

Sometimes a needy pack needs outside help. Local Scout Troop for Den Chiefs? Local service club? Big Brothers? Kiwanis? Lions? Check with your DE about enlisting some outside adult help. It is understandable when some of the parents want a Scout program for their son but outside forces( losing a job, divorce, etc.) interfer. First loyalty must be to your own, but if you can see your way clear to dig alittle more, you might be the means to turn the tide and help a bunch of Cubs for whom this is not their fault. I bet the rest of the Cubs understand what's going on. They just don't have the power to do anything about it.

God be with you, friend.

YiS