Is this the role of the troop committee?

[Chippewa29]

Please tell me if I am off base on this, but I believe that my role as SM of our troop is being stepped upon.

 

On Monday, the Scouts in my troop picked a t-shirt design and color they wanted for the shirt. A couple of months before, when I brought up the subject to the troop committee, they said troop t-shirts sounded great and if the kids wanted to do it, then go ahead.

 

After getting prices this morning, I sent an email out to the troop letting them know about the decision and how much the shirts would cost as well as the sizes available (basically, the order information).

 

I immediately heard back from two families saying what they wanted. About an hour after I sent the message, I got an email that our former SM sent to the entire troop saying that the parents committee (what he calls the troop committee) needs to approve the t-shirts before any order is placed (each scout/family is paying for their own). I feel that the kids made a decision with my guidance (I gave them parameters for the design and submitted a design myself) and that having the committee approve it is micromanaging. Lately, our ex-SM has been wanting more decisions made by the committee that should be made by the PLC or the SM (I tend to push as many decisions as possible to the PLC).

 

By the way, our ex-SM is a Wood Badge graduate (I'm sure it would come up).

[OldGreyEagle]

If the boys designed and approved it, and you passed it as well and the troop committee said it was ok to do, I am not sure what more needs to be done. I'd say you were right and the committee needs to let the boy lead troop be lead by the boys, Unless of course they think the design is gonna be a Vargas girl or soemthing, but then what confidence does that show in you?

[Chippewa29]

There was no way I would let anything close to a questionable design get through. Fortunately, our Scouts are pretty good about staying away from that (at least around me). Like you said, even though I have nineteen years of experience in the Scouts (seven as a Scout, twelve as an adult leader), some of the parents still tend to think of me as not knowing what I am doing because I am younger than they are and don't have kids. Several times, when I've tried to tell them about staying back and letting the kids run themselves (no element of danger, just kids needing to figure out for themselves on something), I've gotten comments like "when you have kids, you'll understand". I'd like to say to them, "Once you've been on enough campouts, you'll understand" (of course I don't).

[Bob White]

Hi Chippewa,

I think you know my answer. If the boys made the decision then the decision is made. the role of the Troop Committee (and by the way that is the correct label) is to fiind ways to support that decision.

 

You need a friendly heart to heart with the committee chair to clarify the role of the committee and its members. Bringing in the committee training program "Troop Committee Challenge" will help. So would reviewing the contents of the Troop Committee Guidebook.

 

Not meaning to stir the pot too much but here are two things to consider. 1. 'Going to training' is not always followed by 'using the training'. 2. Nothing in the scouting program says that the troop committee is operated by majority vote. The training and the manual say that the troop makes the decisions and the committee helps make it happen, AND that the committee chair (working in cooperation with the SM and the charter rep) assigns tasks to the committee members and they report back at the committee meeting.

 

You are on the scouting path when you let the boys make these decisions. now you need to get the committee chair to make the committee walk the same trail.

 

Bob

 

PS: The ex-SM should not have over ridden your e-mail like that. He should have talked to you and if a rertraction needed to be made he should have let you send it. That was very poor etiquette on his part.

 

[Rooster7]

I agree with everything that's been said with one disclaimer.

 

But first, I'd like to echo Bob's comment about the ex-SM's "poor etiquette." If nothing else is true, the ex-SM is guilty of using extremely poor judgment (by sending out that email). Worse yet, he may be intentionally trying to usurp you. Did he leave the position on his own terms? Is he trying to serve two roles (maybe CC and "SM")? Whatever the reason, his email response was wholly inappropriate.

 

Now for my disclaimer...I am assuming that you are completely innocent (I have no reason to believe otherwise). That is to say, the committee has no reason to believe that you would allow a T-shirt design to be used that conflicts with the image (i.e., respectful, polite, etc.) they want the troop to project. For example, some folks in Scouting see no big need to project a wholesome image. They might approve of a T-shirt that sends the wrong the message. If the committee has just cause to believe that you would inspire and/or approve of such a T-shirt, I think they do have a right to demand pre-approval. On the other, if you have given them no reason to distrust you (and since you are the SM, that should be true), then I think "micro-managing" is the proper diagnosis. So, if my assumption is true, then I would politely inform the committee that if they value your service, they should show you more consideration...they should give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[eisely]

ditto

[KoreaScouter]

Chippewa 29:

 

As Denzel Washington's character said in "Remember The Titans", your troop committee is "overcooking your grits". They have no more business vetoing your Scouts' shirt design than the Scouts would if they tried to tell the CC what time his meeting should start.

 

Here's an opposite example. Most Scouts in my troop wanted nothing to do with the official BSA hat -- in a word, too dorky. But, I couldn't let them wear sports/FUBU/etc. caps in uniform, so after conferring with the SPL, he put it out to the PLC: "If you don't like the BSA hat, design one you DO like, and that will be the troop hat, and the only one you can wear in uniform, BTW". They did, it's fabulous (and cool enough that they even wear it when they're NOT in their Scout uniforms), and the main point, the committee said "Marvelous, here's a check" (troop buys the first cap for the Scouts). I think that's where you oughta be with the roles/missions thing.

 

On your former SM, not knowing him, he may be a conniver or have the least amount of situational awareness of any living human, or something in between. Either way, he needs to back up and regroup. I had a similar situation when I was a Cubmaster. The former CM wouldn't "go away", if you know what I mean. The committee had to give him a heave-ho. Very awkward, but turned out okay in the end...good luck.

KS

[Chippewa29]

Just to let you know, our former SM is not the CC. Basically, he is a committee member. Also, he practically begged me to take the job from him for over a year. For a year or so after I took over, he was rarely around (maybe one meeting a month and a couple of campouts that year) due to his job keeping him out of town.

 

In regards to Rooster's inquiry, the design is our troop crest (a shield with a gold bar across the top with the fleur-de-lis and a square knot in the shield; it looks kind of like a family crest) with our hometown written below the crest.

 

Our committee chair is a very nice lady that handles a lot of the administrative work (she has taken basic leader training), but is not a strong leader at all. She tries to avoid conflict (I don't think she has any agenda other than helping out the troop). Our ex-SM, since he now has time (he has been able to stay home with his job the past couple of months), seems to want to run things again.

 

A little history on him. He came into the troop with his oldest son twelve years ago and wasn't very active his first couple of years. Then, after a civil war among the adults in the troop, he suddenly got involved and after stumbling around, went to training (before this, he didn't believe in wearing a uniform) and suddenly got religion. He became an ASM and a couple of years later, he wasn't happy with how the SM was doing things (not great, but not terrible either). When that SM left, he told me he felt like he was pushed out. A couple years later, this SM was burned out and basically forced the position on one of our other assistants. For the next 1 1/2-2 years, the ex-SM basically ran the troop even though his former assistant was SM. Then, he took back over again as SM when his job schedule gave him enough time. About a year later, he was overwhelmed again (he had a very hard time delegating anything and we spent about five years without getting any new adult help, basically because he liked to control everything). About that time, he started asking me to take over the troop (he was only there half the time because of his job). I took over a year later.

 

I don't think he wants the SM job back, but he wants to still be the one making the decisions. I've already called in outside help (district training staff that knows all parties involved). Our COR won't be of much help, as he has very little Scouting background and his involvement in the troop in the past year has been attending one committee meeting.

 

Earlier today, I was wondering why I was so mad at the email. It wasn't the fact that he disagreed with me (its only t-shirts), but this isn't the first time he has pronounced me wrong in front of the troop. I now realize that I am not happy about him not acknowledging me as being the leader of the troop and following the path I am trying to lay out for it with the Scouts.

[yaworski]

I guess that the question that really needs to be answered is "Who is in charge?"

 

Supposedly, the boys are in charge. However, the SM is there to provide guidance and make sure that what the boys do fits into the Scouting framework. As another however, it looks like one of the Committee's jobs is to makes sure that the SM runs the program that they and the CO want.

 

Since the committee has to lay out the funds for the shirt, you could argue that they deserve final approval.

 

Let's say that the boys design a shirt that is green and purple and you let them have them made up. Now the COR comes to you and says, "Hey, green and purple are the colors of our rival club across town. We don't appreciate the slap in the face. Find a new place to meet." What are you going to do?

[acco40]

Green and purple? Did I say green and purple? I'm so sorry, our new T-Shirts are emerald (or jade, lime, olive, etc.) and indigo (or violet). We never would have chosen your rival's green and purple!

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Chippewa,

 

regardless of the shirt design, something you shouldnt have to defend, the real issue is much deeper. Is this guy gonna let you be scoutmaster or not? You may have to put it that way to the troop committe and be prepared for any answer, the email he sent should be enough. I think that was over the top. Either he does it all or you do, this nonsense has to stop.

[Chippewa29]

OGE-

 

It may have to come to a referendum on my leadership. A friend of mine that I went through the OA with as a youth has gone on to be Wood Badge trained, was a SM for a couple of years, has an MBA from Yale specializing in non-profit groups, and today is involved with a leadership training group in DC. He said that the troop committee is like the board of directors for any organization. They appoint the leader of the organization (along with the CO in the Boy Scouts case), then provide the support necessary for that leader's vision and direction. If they feel that the leader is not taking the troop in the right direction, then they have the right to remove that leader. I don't have any kids in the troop (I'm single and childless) and my only agenda is to see the troop built into a strong organization that places an emphasis on developing leaders using the Scouting program. If they feel like they want to go another direction, all they have to do is tell me, and I'll be more than happy to step aside. I'm currently the only adult in my troop that wears a uniform on a regular basis. As of right now, I have one ASM (who volunteered two months ago and makes constant excuses why he can't do this or that) and no one else wants to make that "huge committment" although we have a few adults that are at a majority of meetings, help out a lot on the side, and go on about half the campouts. They are just afraid "wear the uniform" or take on formal responsibilities.

 

I'd hate to see my tenure as SM end, but if I'm going to have a troop committee that is constantly looking over my shoulder and letting me build the program so the Scouts run it, then I'll need to step down.

[OldGreyEagle]

I would hate to see your troop lose you, but its tough to work with a prescence hanging over your back.

[eisely]

Hopefully it does not come to a parting of the ways for you. This kind of thing happens in all kinds of organizations, most notably family owned and run businesses. It takes a lot of maturity to let a successor lead an organization in which you have made a major personal investment. I suspect if the issue is fairly aired in your committee the right conclusion will be reached. This succession issue is something most people can relate to.

[Chippewa29]

I do have good news. I just got an email from one of the parents in the troop and he sent a reply to everyone in the troop saying that he felt that one of the purposes of Scouting was to teach the kids responsibility and if they came up with a design that they didn't like, they needed to live with it. Also, he said he doesn't believe the parents own the troop. The kids do and the adults are there to support the kids program.

 

I had gotten another email from one of our new moms saying she thought if the kids liked the design and there was nothing offensive about it, then there shouldn't be any need for the committee to approve it.

 

I have a feeling that most of the parents in the troop will feel the same way. At least I hope.