How can you remove a Committee Chair?

[Karen_216]

I'm not an old scouter but I'm an enthuasastic scouter.(2 years w/ cubscouts- 10 years listening to my sister's experiences (she's council trainer) and several years GS exp)But in that 2 years I've been Tiger DL, Cub DL, pack trainer, various event organizer, general busybody and volunteer and now CM. (and luckily now ADL)

We had a very similar experience w/ a CC this year. When asked last year if he would be CC he said he may not make all the meetings but he'd do his best. I have no idea what he DID do because he just "poof" dissapeared in the fall. The CM was leaving soon so wanted the CC to take over things he should be doign anyway such as arranging and flooring the committee meetings. He did one and then changed our schedule from Tues to Weds and everyone was confused and asking me what was going on, as I had stepped up and said I'd take over as CM when the current one retired (BTW - did it not just to pack but me as he was my co-leader in Wolves). He did not recharter us so we could get quality unit and had the packet from nov-march-- Put ME in a huge bind as new CM- I took everything and did the best I could.(got everything to council w/ one day to spare before our info deleted from the registry). I did not have time to set up meetings with COR as expected- just did the paperwork stuff.

Now the new CC is going back to meet w/ COR and doing planning meetings. I was in discussions about asking about trying to sart the process of asking the CC to step down when he resigned.

Often they know they are not doing a good job-- especially when they get mutliple calls and emails asking-- "where are you".

Anyhow-- you're not alone... things resolve themselves. It takes time for everyone to get their roles down. If you divide and conquer you can get through. Maybe consider getting an Events Chair, membership Chair, to do those things, do you have an Assist CM?

We also have the person who is running event to take the money and make the res and send out the info, etc. Share the wealth.. Ask others to step up. Right now we don't have a secretary (the Dad who was going to do be sec. is now the CC- I think a better fit ). I'm dividing up duties and hopefully we'll get some knew blood to help out.

If you take a step back you may see that everyothing is not as bleak as it seems. Didn't you say it was mentioned the pack is much better run now?? There are highs and lows that everyone goes through. I like to do stuff by email but sometimes you have to pick up the phone. People panic when they can't get in touch w/ someone rigth away but there are many ways to find out the info you need, otherwise you just do what you think it correct and go from there. If it comes back to an error at least you can say you tried to get in touch. Sometimes you jsut have to go ahead and DO IT. Also, do you REALLY have to be doing all the things you're doing?? What happens if you don't do jsut one evetn and take a break?? Someone else can do that if they really want to go. Assign someone.

Sorry this is so long but I think we take too much on sometimes. I'm trying to learn to let go of doign so much too.

Good Luck

 

[Kymsue]

The problem is that I'm going the CC job, but here's our last email to give you an idea of what I'm up against.

 

I sent the CC and CM (Bill) this email:

We had 5 new CubScouts show up last night.

I didn't know anyone was coming...

They had questions I couldn't answer.

Do they need to fill out the adult application?

What's the point of doing that?

Is there an additional cost to do that?

I had one person who didn't get the book and another one that got the wrong book.

How do we get that fixed?

What do we do with the Kinders that will be Tigers next year?

They let them sign up.... and said it was okay???

Should they meet with the current Tigers?

Do we have the "new scout" orientation information put together that we talked about?

 

This was the CC's Response to my email:

Instead of three part question and answer have them call me. I address their needs and do my job as the committee chair. I understnd you trying to help, But just like we talked about on Saturday I need to step up and do my job. I do not mind you answer what question you have answers to. All I am asking is to be able to do the job of committee chair. Let them know of my working hours 3:00pm to 11:30pm, I will try to call them between those hours if not call me after 9am.

If you have any other question call me I am here.

 

This was my response to his email:

I don't have contact information, maybe Bill does. I believe the Den Leaders got information, so you'll have to call them and see. My Den wasn't suppose to have a meeting on Monday I was there just to unlock doors, but ended up spending an hour trying to answer questions and not let these people think I didn't know what was going on. I passed out and emailed the Pack Roster several times. You can get the Den Leaders numbers. You can let them know your availability. I don't have the opportunity at work to use the phone all the time, so during the day email is the best way for me to communicate.

 

I do think things have improved because I'm at the meetings and I'm organized. I have the parents right there to ask for help and they ususally see I have a lot going on and offer to help. Now it seems like I am organizing everything, but now he wants everything to go through him... one more step for me.

 

I had the mindset that with him as CC at least he'd be doing somethings and that's one less thing I'd have to delegate or take care off, but now it's just more work for myself because I can't get ahold of him to see what he has done and I end up doing it myself anyway.

 

[John-in-KC]

Well I can delegate and coordinate at the Den meetings with different people, but I'm there to ask questions.

 

Remember that your first responsibility is to the eight Cubs of your Den and their weekly meeting. You have more influence on them in that hour a week than with anyone other than their parents and teacher. (sometimes more than them). They must be your first concern. Your husband volunteered to be CM, let him be the heavy here.

 

I'm already at Roundtable for the Troop, so two birds with one stone is okay.

 

No, it's not okay. Roundtable is not simply a "pick up the mail from District." It's a resource, introducing the National program themes a month ahead of delivery to the youth. All direct contact leaders have a proper place in being at Roundtable! When you choose to volunteer to take on the responsibility, someone else gets left off the hook. The ideal Cub RT is a model Pack meeting, showing how the themes play out. It also allows sharing of best practices. Trust me... benefit for all to attend!

 

The parents see me at the meetings I update them all the time and solicate help.

 

I hope you mean your parents (your Den) see you at your meetings. Your Den deserves your full attention as its leader! Each DL in the Pack is a direct conduit for information to his/her youth's parents.

 

At the Troop level, do I have to attend the boys meetings? No, but I am much better at it when I do.

 

True... you can coordinate with your various chairs and coordinators informally. You get to chair Boards of Review. You get to stay out of the way of the PLC as the youth run the meeting under the supervision of the Scoutmaster. You get to set an example by being in the full BSA uniform

 

Caution: The Methods and Purposes of Cub Scouting parallel, but are not identical to, Boy Scouting. They are age-appropriate for 7-11 year olds. Make sure you stay on track with each program.

[John-in-KC]

At the risk of sounding like Bob White... (sigh)...

 

The problem is that I'm going the CC job, but here's our last email to give you an idea of what I'm up against.

 

I sent the CC and CM (Bill) this email:

We had 5 new CubScouts show up last night.

I didn't know anyone was coming...

They had questions I couldn't answer.

Do they need to fill out the adult application?

What's the point of doing that?

Is there an additional cost to do that?

 

If the parents want to do things Scouting in support of the children in the Pack, they may indeed want to register as Scouters. They do not to have their youth in the program.

 

The point of joining as a Scouter is the opportunity to serve the unit as a whole, be it as your assistant DL, as an Assistant Cubmaster, as a Day Camp Den Leader, or as a Committee member.

 

The cost to register a Scouter is $10 a year for National dues and Scouter Magazine. I do not know what adult fees your Pack sets.

 

I had one person who didn't get the book and another one that got the wrong book.

How do we get that fixed?

 

In my Pack, new members get to buy their first book... they get it at the Council Scout Shop, or one of the BSA distributors in the area. www.scoutstuff.org can help you find area Distributors.

 

What do we do with the Kinders that will be Tigers next year?

They let them sign up.... and said it was okay???

 

Yes, now is the time to get them signed up; they actually can be members the day the school year lets out. That way, they can go to DAYCAMP!!!

 

 

Should they meet with the current Tigers?

I'd be looking for a Den Leader to start organizing that ring of the circus That's a position a Pack tries to lock in before the end of the school year, so the TDL is ready to receive kids.

 

Do we have the "new scout" orientation information put together that we talked about?

 

This was the CC's Response to my email:

Instead of three part question and answer have them call me. I address their needs and do my job as the committee chair. I understnd you trying to help, But just like we talked about on Saturday I need to step up and do my job. I do not mind you answer what question you have answers to. All I am asking is to be able to do the job of committee chair. Let them know of my working hours 3:00pm to 11:30pm, I will try to call them between those hours if not call me after 9am.

If you have any other question call me I am here.

 

Your CM needs to have that talk with the DE and commish. They need to have a talk with the COR. The fact (not previously exposed) that your CC works the 3-11 may mean the COR needs to encourage him to take a different leadership position, which fits with his job. He's doing the kids a disservice by not being available to run his own meeting (Committee) and to do the support things a CC does at the Pack meeting.

 

This was my response to his email:

I don't have contact information, maybe Bill does. I believe the Den Leaders got information, so you'll have to call them and see. My Den wasn't suppose to have a meeting on Monday I was there just to unlock doors, but ended up spending an hour trying to answer questions and not let these people think I didn't know what was going on. I passed out and emailed the Pack Roster several times. You can get the Den Leaders numbers. You can let them know your availability. I don't have the opportunity at work to use the phone all the time, so during the day email is the best way for me to communicate.

 

Person to person at Pack Committee is the best mode of communication. Voice is second, because emotions and inflections come out in voice. Digits have the advantage of bulk, but the disadvantage of impersonality.

 

BTW, there are two sides to every story. I'm reading yours. The challenge is how we turn this into a win/win situation. Your CC is trying to do the right thing and serve youth; perhaps there's a slot which supports his ability to serve a bit better.

 

Finally, training, training, and training: Think of the various cub scout materials as a playbook. The role of training is to get you and your fellow leaders not only working in the playbook, but working on the same play of the playbook.

 

The Pack goal should be every Scouter has:

Youth Protection

New Leader Essentials

 

and as appropriate:

Tiger DL, Den Leader, or Webelos DL specific

Cubmaster specific

Webelos Outdoor Leader

BALOO

 

Although Boy Scout specific, Troop Committee Challenge, taken by the whole Committee, can be an excellent teambuilding exercise.

(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Bob White]

I believe it was Stephen Leacock who wrote "he flung himself upon his horse and rode madly off in all directions".

 

That seems a fair description of your chosen role in the pack. It would appear that no one left you holding the bag, you swept up every bag in sight and chose to carry all of them. The best thing for your sanity, and for the good of the pack, is for you to give all the bags back to the cubmaster and committee chair and say that you would be happy to do one job, and one only. The rest will have to be shared with others.

 

If they offer you the committee chair's job I would suggest you politely decline saying that having a spousal team in two key leadership roles is not healthy for the pack and could likely cause major problems sooner or later.

 

Once you settle on one job attend the training for it as soon as possible. I am glad you want to set a good example for the boys, that is an important and valued trait in an adult leader. You might want to check out what the Cub Scout program says about mixing uniform pieces with civilian clothing. You will find that passage in the Cub Scout Leader Book.

 

Good luck with your new position, I think will will enjoy the lighter workload.

BW

 

 

[scoutldr]

One thing...in our District, Cub RT and Scout RT are two separate meetings, held in different locations on the same night. It's impossible to attend both, although our DE tries. The purposes are very different, and, as John says, it's a training event (if done right), not just an info download from the DE. I have to side with Bob White on this one. A unit only has one CC, and it sounds like yours is not willing to step aside and doesn't want your help. You can only do what you can do, so stay in your lane. I have been a DL, a CM (for 5 years), an SM and a CC for a troop. They are each full time jobs and I would never try to do more than one at a time.

[Kymsue]

Wow that's a lot of good information. Thanks to everyone.

 

First, I have communicated to the CC on 4 occassions stating that "this isn't working" I'm being pulled away from the Den. With Camporee having just passed it was stressful being the contact person at the Den meeting (all the dens meet in one location so the adults look for answers at the meeting) and getting prepared for Camporee, being that none of the adults including CM had participated in the event.

 

Second, the CC has assured me repeatedly that he will "do his job". I'm slowly pulling back and watching the chips fall. It's just frustrating to see the Pack's organization fall by the way side. But the advice from all seems to be let the CC do his job, step back.... so I'm stepping. I emailed him all the information I have pending from Council and I'm thinking positive that he's going to get on top of things.

 

Third, I couldn't agree more about my husband and I having both top positions. My plate is full. I'm not a marter, nor do I like to run around like a chicken with my head cut off. Frankly, I think there are too many volunteers in Scouting that take on way too many roles from Council to Troop, so many that they have a poor performance across the board because they're spread too thin. That's exactly why I have never taken a Committee Position. My husband only took it when no one else would. He's on call 24/7 so he can get a call at anytime. So I knew I'd have to be his eyes and ears when he was called away. I was prepared for that and only expected to communicate what he missed and expect him to handle things.

 

Fourth, My Den Weblos I and II has myself and two very active dads, that co-lead. Our Den runs very smooth. We have a great Den Chief. And to TOOOOT our horns we won 2nd overall at Camporee on our first time out. BUT I agree I need to forcus on advancement and Arrow of Light for the 4 Weblos II we inherited when their leader left. These boys want their Arrow and we're going to help them work hard to get it. The Weblos are my focus. The Den Leaders are really on top of their programs and I don't worry about them.

 

Fifth, training? What training? Our Council doesn't have any classes until September. I've emailed, I've begged, and they all acknowledge the problem but haven't offered a solution. I guess I'm heading to Los Angeles to see what they have to offer (that's a shame).

 

Sixth, Roundtable. Our meetings are all in one Pack and Troop. I feel like they're a waste of time. Come pick up flyers and hear about FOS. I am going to email my UC with the Pack and see if I'm missing something and get a better understanding on how to utilized the meeting better.

 

SOOOOO after all discussion. I'm pulling back. I'm forever positive and I'll keep praying I can serve with a gracious heart. I will say I'm very disappointed in our Council and their lack of direction and contact with the units. When an entire teams turns over for a pack that's been around 50 years, and the two other Packs in our area folded in the last year, you would think that someone at sometime would make contact and reach out to make sure the transition was going smoothly.

 

Have I vented enough? Thanks for all the input and advice.

[FScouter]

"... it was stressful being the contact person at the Den meeting (all the dens meet in one location so the adults look for answers at the meeting)..."

 

As you have discovered, running simultaneous den meeting in one location is chaotic and not recommended. Try holding your den meeting in a separate location at a separate time.

 

The Cub Scout Leader book gives guidance that if followed will solve every problem you've presented.

[scoutldr]

A combined Cub/Scout roundtable? That doesn't work, as you know. That's like combining an English class with a Calculus class and then wondering why nobody's getting anything out of it. If all it is is an information download, I would not waste my time and gas going. They can send me an e-mail instead.

[John-in-KC]

I'm going to invest in one comment here.

 

A healthy Scout unit has a symbiotic relationship with its Chartered Partner. The Partner provides the items it agrees to in the BSA Charter Agreement to the unit. In return, the unit has some service and feedback obligations to the Partner:

 

- The Committee Chair (ideally) or Program Officer (secondarily) should tell the continuing story of the unit to the Partner ... and that's not just to the COR. The membership should hear about the difference Scouting makes in the lives of the youth. The membership should see the smiles, if not in person, at least by photo. Some of the really big items (Pinewood Derby champion) might well be awarded by the IH, helping add to the smiles.

 

- The Program Officer (ideally) or the Committee Chair (second choice) should ask for age appropriate service needs from the Chartered Partner. Litter pickup, greeting and ushering (if a church/synagogue), lawnmowing at the facility... all are little things a unit can do. If the Partner has a major service project and the youth are not age-appropriate, imo it's right and proper to call on parents and Scouters to give the support.

 

- Many groups, including civic organizations and churches, participate in summer activities at Memorial Day and Independence Day. What better way to co-mingle the unit and the Chartered Partner than to participate together. Think of a VFW color guard, and the associated Cub Scouts marching right behind the Veterans.

 

When there's a healthy relationship between the Chartered Partner and the unit, it's easy to ask the COR to make a business call to Council "Please provide the support promised in the Charter Agreement." A dis-satisfied chartered partner, who calls in to the SE, can make life exciting for the DE and the District Key 3. My Council makes a special effort to keep its Chartered Partners happy; I hope yours would too...

 

OTOH, a chartered partner who is left out in the cold usually thinks of Scouting, if they think of it at all, as an appendage, if not a nuisance.

 

The choice belongs to the Scouters of your Pack.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Kymsue]

Who needs training?

I've learned more on this post then my Council has offered.

I've learned that our Council lost the Training Chair, so no training.

I would have to say both my Pack and Troop don't have the best relationship with their Charter.

The Troop at least participates in clean up days, flag ceremonies, Scout Sunday, etc. But the church has incredibly low patronage and I wouldn't be suprised if they were forced to close their doors. I think more of their revenue comes from renting out the church... which is probably why we have problems getting meeting times.

The Pack's charter is a local Elks Lodge. We go there for Blue and Gold, but that's it. We did a pancake breakfast once and that was a big success. My husband CM signed up to be a member at the Blue and Gold, but hasn't heard back yet. We're going over for dinner on Friday, so we'll follow up.

But thanks again everyone I'll be a better CC with the Troop.

We have a strong Den and I'm really proud of the Weblos.

[John-in-KC]

Sigh.

 

We are not a substitute for well executed training. We're a bunch of folk who've learned a thing or two, argue amongst ourselves at times, but who care...

[Kymsue]

Don't worry John.

I will be trained. I'm beating Council with a "soft" stick and looking at other areas for training.

I won't give up and when I'm trained look for my "two cents" on the boards.

Don't worry.... I'm involved for the kids and the looks on their faces at Camporee was worth all this drama.

I promise you'll be proud of me.

[Gold Winger]

Arugue amongst oursevles? We do not! Who the heck do you think you are to claim that we argue?

[Basementdweller]

Look outside your district or council for training. My home district is very weak on training so I just went to another district to get the training I needed. There is more than one way to skin a cat.