Patrols in Cub Scouts

[SctDad]

I have heard some discussion about using patrols in the Cub Scouts when the Dens get too big.

 

Does anyone else out there use the patrol system in the Pack and if so do you have the boys put the patrol patches on the uniform.

 

I am just looking at some of the other issues that are forthcoming next year.

 

Any Help??

[Lisabob]

Although some people apparently do this and perhaps it even works well for them, please be aware that this is not in keeping with the "official" cub scout program. In fact, the cub leader hand book explicitly indicates that webelos dens are still dens, not patrols. As was mentioned recently in another thread, there is a risk of either treating webelos too much like boy scouts (and thus getting them in over their heads), or of "dumbing down" what is meant by "patrol" so that if/when the boys cross into a troop, their expectations of what patrols do may not match reality, setting them (and their new troop) up for problems later on.

 

Ideally the solution to the problem of a den that is becoming too big to manage would be to form a second den. That's the "book" answer anyway. Hope this is helpful to you.

[FScouter]

If the problem is no den leader for a second den, the best solution is to choose and recruit a den leader for a second den.

 

There may be a ton of practices utilized by packs and dens to avoid using a den leader, and of course the proponents will claim their particular practice works well for them. Better than a real den leader?

 

http://old.scouting.org/commissioners/resources/13-500.pdf

[Eagledad]

I had 16 Webelos and randomly divided them up into two groups during our activities.

 

As a Scoutmaster, I wanted new scouts who didn't feel they had already been there and done that. While I like to give Webelos some taste of a troop experience to get them excited and confident, I didn't want them to thinking they were boy scouts.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

[DYB-Mike]

Greetings!

 

This year we formed our six second-year webelos into a patrol. We allowed the boys to select their emblem the Dragon. We got them dragon and position badges and they elected their patrol leader and the other positions. The positions were rotated a couple of times. The boys helped make a patrol flag that they attached to their Klondike Derby sled.

 

Beyond that, I dont think there was much boy leading practiced, although the boys were made aware that they would be responsible for the planning and most of the execution of their activities as Boy Scouts. Their den leader formed the patrol primarily to give the boys some idea of what the new arrangement in Boy Scouts would be like. There was instruction as to what the positions meant and associated responsibilities. The Chaplains Aide did give a blessing at our Blue and Gold.

 

I wouldnt consider patrols for any of the other cub ranks except the second-year webelos to prepare them for the transition. For large dens either break it up with an additional den leader or get some assistant den leaders and den chiefs to help out with the activities.

 

YIS

Mike

 

[Gold Winger]

What do you mean by "patrols" when the den gets too big? Having two virtual dens with one den leader? I'd call those fire teams and not patrols. :-)

 

BTW, those Dragons are still a den, not a patrol.

 

 

[FScouter]

I don't understand the thinking. If the den leader changes the name from "den" to "patrol", and "denner" to "patrol leader", how does that prepare Webelos to transition to Boy Scouts? I have always believed (perhaps naively) that a successful transition involves showing them what Boy Scouts are like by visiting a Boy Scout camporee, camping as guests of a troop, and visiting a troop meeting or two. The preparation for transition is complete when they earn the Webelos badge and the Arrow of Light.

 

It seems to me that referring to them as a patrol and continuing to function as a den led by an adult den leader would only set them up for a rude awakening when they join a troop and became part of a real patrol. Besides which if I was a real patrol leader Id feel my position was being cheapened when some Cub Scout joins the troop and announces he was a "patrol leader" in his den.

[SctDad]

I can see where everyone is coming from. So I can see that there should not be divisions called 'Patrols'

 

Would it be wrong for me to rename them to dens like Dragon, or raven instead of the Webelos 1 and Webelos 2. If this is so are the cub scouts authorized to wear a patch signifying the Den name.

 

I was just wondering if this would be a problem. Now I know someone is going to say reference the uniform guide, so before anyone starts yelling at me about checking it, please know that I do not have a copy. We are on a limited budget and getting all of the different regulation books along with all of the things needed to run successful and fun meetings is getting expensive and it is hard to get all of the little books that everyone talks about here.

 

If someone can help me with this regulation it would be appreciated.

 

YIS

SctDad

[DYB-Mike]

Greetings,

 

Our second year webelos have attended a camporee as guests of the Troop they will be crossing over to. The Den meetings are now held at the same time and location as the Troop meetings. After Den business, which lately has consisted of cross over preparation as mentioned in my earlier post, they are invited to participate in the Troop game at the meetings end and in the Troops closing ceremony. They have also participated in a few of the Troops meeting activities. A Troop-Pack Liaison (a member of the troop leadership) has been assigned to help in the transition and answer parents questions. So the Troop leadership and the Boy Scouts are aware of whats going on and they are fine with it.

 

Now these boys have earned their Arrow of Light, which was presented at the Blue and Gold in February. Why not just cross them over to the troop you ask? Our Pack has a long-standing tradition of crossing the boys over in May at a special camp-out at a local campground. Both the Pack and the Troop wish to continue this tradition, thus the interim period.

 

And have no fear Gold Winger, as you can see from the above we still call their meetings Den meetings. Thanks for pointing that out though.

 

YIS

Mike

 

[Lisabob]

Sctdad, Webelos dens are allowed to choose an emblem and rename themselves the "Dragons" (or whatever else). This is given the "official blessing" in the various leader guides and I think, also in the webelos handbook (for the scouts). They are still referred to as dens though, even if they choose this. When I was a WDL we let the boys pick a den emblem right after they were done with the Bear program. One den became "wolverines" and another "sabretooth tigers."

 

 

[Oak Tree]

And following on to what Lisabob said, yes, the dens can wear their den emblem of a wolverine or tiger or whatever. They would take the den number off and put the den emblem in its place. They can even theoretically make up custom patches if they want, but that's expensive and a bit of a hassle. I'd show them the list of patrol patches and let them vote. The Webelos colors, if worn, go below the den number, or on top of the den emblem.

[Oak Tree]

Oh, and one more thing. The Insignia Guide is (mostly) on line now. You can see it at http://www.scouting.org/Media/InsigniaGuide.aspx

[Pack212Scouter]

If you have enough Second year Webelos, they should be organized into their own den. These Webelos will generally be working on different things than the first year Webelos. ie. Second year will ususually be working on AOL and transition to Boy Scouts while most first year Webelos will be working on completing their Webelos rank.

[Eagledad]

>>Would it be wrong for me to rename them to dens like Dragon, or raven instead of the Webelos 1 and Webelos 2.