Bear Den "Camp-In"?

[infoscouter]

What's being described here is closer to "Other Cub Scout Trips and Excursions" in the Outdoor Program Guidelines.

 

http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/resources/cub%20scout%20outdoor%20program%20guidelines.aspx

 

This describes lock-in type events at museums or zoos:

 

-Trips normally will be one-day excursions.

-Overnight stays are permitted but they are not encouraged.

-When overnight stays are necessary, participants will stay in private homes, motels, or hotels.

-Lock-ins or overnight programming at local museums or other appropriate locations may be approved by the local council.

-Den leaders, pack leaders, and parents or guardians are expected to accompany the boys on approved trips.

-The adult partner must accompany the Tiger Cub on all trips and outings.

 

And the same document talks about camping as being held at council approved sites.

 

This event seems neither fish nor foul. It was a lock-in, but not at an educational forum. It wasn't camping 'cause it wasn't outdoors, and it certainly wasn't at a "council approved site". It is very similar to events held by my district for several years. However, registration for that event was on a pack basis, so attendance constituted a pack activity.

 

It does seem like the pack was violating the *spirit* of the rules while still following all the rules for pack camping. The Cub Scout Leader Book defines a pack overnighter, as "Pack-organized overnight events, involving more than one family from a single pack, focused on age-appropriate Cub Scout activities and conducted at council-approved locations." So this event was overnight, organized by the pack, involving more than one family. So it falls under the criteria for an overnighter - and such an activity, by Tigers, Wolves and Bears, is specifically disallowed by the GtSS. I suppose one way to amend the situation is to make this a pack lock-in, with separate sleeping areas for each den. It would then serve the purpose of "den bonding", while more closely complying with the purposes and methods of Cub Scouting.

___________________________________________________

On a general note.

 

CS Outdoor Guidelines and the Age-Appropriate Activities Guidelines emphasize the age progession of Scouting activities, and maintaining developmentally appropriate activities. That said - my boys were sleeping at other kids houses from age 7 on up. However, I know some parents who don't allow sleep overs, or whose boys aren't ready for them yet. How does a pack structure activities taking both of those types of boys into consideration?

 

In another forum, I have seen posts that postulate that to some extent CS activities are constrained by the fact that LDS packs cannot camp overnight. The context was why more camping/outdoor activities weren't _required_. The speculation was that since LDS Cubs cannot camp, that making it a requirement would prevent those Scouts (a substantial proportion of the membership) from earning rank.

[Gold Winger]

"-Den leaders, pack leaders, and parents or guardians are expected to accompany the boys on approved trips.

-The adult partner must accompany the Tiger Cub on all trips and outings."

 

Since this was neither a trip nor an outing, this doesn't apply. :-)

 

"It does seem like the pack was violating the *spirit* of the rules"

 

I don't think that it violated anything because they never left their usual meeting place. It wasn't an outing. It wasn't camping. It was just a long meeting that might have involved a nap. If the nap makes it camping then kindergarten was camping. Heck, for that matter work might be camping.

[thebigguy]

thats true pack overnighters are permited, but bear den overnighters are not.

 

Im not saying we all follow the rules all the time, Im just saying, that is the rule.

 

in addition, and please dont think I hate cubs,

the BSA is absilutly anti cub camping. the reasoning it that camping is a privlege that the cub can look forward to in boy scouting. this helps with getting boys into boy scouts, and to insure that cubs dont wind up having a bad experiance with camping, that will discurage him from moving on to, boy scouting.

 

dont ask me to give you a sorce for this statment. call it my opinion if you want, but it is the truth. the camp I am ranger of is a cub resient camp in the summer. I spend alot of time on cub program. this is how we do it.

[rjscout]

' and it certainly wasn't at a "council approved site". '

 

We had a lock-in (called it a camp-in) at our CO site (we are chartered by our public elementary school PTO) back in December. We did include the entire Pack. When we asked about getting council permission, we were told that we don't need permission at the CO site.

 

This could vary by Council.

[Gold Winger]

"ont ask me to give you a sorce for this statment. call it my opinion if you want,"

 

I've heard that before from official sources but I still think that it is hogwash.

[ScoutNut]

What's done is done.

 

This was a Lock-In. A Lock-In, no matter where it is held, even at your CO, is still an overnighter. BSA specifically states that Lock-Ins must have council approval.

 

ALSO - BSA does NOT allow DEN overnighters. It does not matter if you call them a camp-in, a lock-in, or an all night party. PACK overnighters are fine, but Webelos are the ONLY den allowed to do overnighters as a DEN.

 

It does not matter if you do not agree. These are BSA's rules.

 

There would have been NO problem if the entire Pack had been invited and a tour permit had been issued (council approval). If your council decides that a tour permit is not necessary - fine. However, it is NOT up to the DEN or PACK to decide this. Filing a tour permit is the best way to get "council approval".

 

 

 

 

[Gold Winger]

Since I'm no longer involved with Cub Scouts, my opinion doesn't matter.

 

However, BSA rules on many things are vague and poorly written, some say that is intentional. IMNSHO, this is one of those cases.

 

In the end, we all do what we have to do.