Returnee just has to vent

[NHawk52]

As mentioned, I personally agree with the philosophies of the martial arts and also personally feel that they should be and are highly beneficial to all persons of sound mind - including those of Scouting age! The CM's boys are enrolled at the aforementioned dojo and I WISH my son was (but that's another story).

 

My points were that: 1. It is specifically contrary to BSA policy (teach the boys to disregard rules they don't personally agree with??), and 2. Having the boys attention and focus for the monthly Pack Meeting business (awards, announcements, general teachings, etc.) would be as likely as getting and holding their attention in the middle of a carnival. If we are going to choose to sidestep policy specifically for an unusual outing, then maybe it ought to be confined to the less formal settings of Den level.

 

I wouldn't try to conduct a formal Pack Meeting in the Pits at the local 1/4 mile dragstrip either. But I wouldn't have a problem taking the Den out there to learn how to "check the oil and change a tire."

 

[Oak Tree]

NHawk52,

 

I think your observations are pretty accurate. It will be tough to do a pack meeting in that environment. I was a Cubmaster, and I wouldn't have tried to do it. Den meetings, or special event dates, can be good for activities like this. I might be willing to do one pack meeting a year in a different environment and hold over most of the awards, but I don't think this event would be special enough to count.

 

And I agree, martial artsexcept judo, aikido, and Tai Chi, are not authorized activities. It's not completely clear from your posting that they'd actually be doing the martial arts, but let's assume that they'd get involved in some demo activity. Even if they didn't get involved, it is still a little bit odd due to the apparent philosophical conflict (the Guide to Safe Scouting doesn't actually say why the activity is unauthorized).

 

But I still think you need to take a deep breath and ask yourself whether you want to come into the pack and start telling them that they are doing things wrong. If you're venting on this forum as an outlet so that you can be pleasant and supporting in the pack, then fine, vent away all you want here. But if you're steeling yourself to take on the pack leadership, then I'd urge you to think about whether that will really help.

 

Oak Tree

 

P.S. GW - I searched for a prohibition on driving practice laps, but oddly enough, it's not documented that way. Still, drivers have to be at least 18 unless they are driving to or from certain events, and I'm pretty sure a racetrack doesn't fit into that. But maybe the older Venturers could drive practice laps, as long as it wasn't for speed. :-)

[Gold Winger]

" Still, drivers have to be at least 18 unless they are driving to or from certain events,"

 

To and from but what if driving is the event. It is frequently said that BSA rules don't tell you what is permitted, only what is prohibited. So based on that and the prevailing wisdom that rules only need to be followed if you think that it makes sense to follow them, I'd let them drive. Of course, Cub Scouts might not be able to reach the pedals but what the heck. :-)

[NHawk52]

Oak Tree, You're exactly right. This forum is a convenient place to merely vent -- not to discount its benefits as a source for valuable information. I have no intention of hamstringing my son nor self-sabotaging those things that I CAN offer the group by getting myself blacklisted out of the gate. LOL These are just little things that could get overinflated if left to simmer too long.

[ScoutNut]

Are you positive that this is the monthly Pack meeting, complete with award presentations? Usually outings like these are in addition to the regular Pack meeting and not replacing it.

 

I still would have no problem with visiting the karate facility, as long as it was strictly a demonstration. It is NOT "specifically contrary to BSA policy" to VIEW these activities, only to PARTICIPATE as a SCOUT.

 

If you are concerned, why not talk to your Cubmaster. Let him know that you were under the impression that karate was not allowed as a Scouting activity by BSA, and you are hesitant to allow your son to attend because of that. Ask him for clarification.

 

BTW - Just because you are registered with a Pack does not mean you are required to stay there no matter what. You might consider shopping around for a Pack that is a better fit for your family.

 

 

 

[sssdigger]

A question has come to mind - did the pack complete a trip permit? Was it approved?

[Oak Tree]

sssdigger, many councils do not require tour permits for short in-town outings.

[sssdigger]

I didn't realize that, thanks.

[Stosh]

Check with your council, some councils don't require a tour permit unless one goes out of council.

 

Stosh

[Ekmiranda]

Hello All,

 

I have been involved in martial arts for several years and have brought my dojos Demo team down to my units pack night on many occasions with wonderful success. Many of the kids have signed up with the dojo and are well on their way to becoming great students. In any good run dojo no matter what form it is the mantra is always to walk away from a potential fight. And if you cant to just defend yourself and subdue your opponent to the point where you can walk away. The lessons that are learned and the philosophies that are taught are things that will never be learned in any other place except at a dojo.

There should be no issues as long as the demo team is doing just that a demonstration. The line is crossed when the kids get involved in the demo and insurance issue will come into play if someone gets hurt. And the BSA umbrella policy will not hold up.

As far as a tour permit my district requires a tour permit no matter where we go local or distant. And if they disapprove they will not approve the permit.

The child in question should get the awards ASAP be it Cubs or Scouts period. If the CM disagrees he is wrong and it should be brought to his attention. There is no question about this; instant recognition is one of the first things a child looks for. Too often this instant gratification is completely over looked in the Childs life at home and in school we cannot and should not deny this as it states in the CM & SM hand books. I was in the same situation and came to the conclusion that the boy earned it he should get it end of the discussion. Although there are many CMS and SMs out there that feel different and parents alike this is one rule that should never ever be broken.

 

YIS EKMiranda