Cheating at the Pinewood Derby!

[fleetfootedfox]

He burned the secret plans, eh? How convenient. Why burn the plans? Why not share them to show off his genius? Don't you think that just maybe he was cheating and didn't want anybody to know?

[rjscout]

I agree... why burn the plans... share them.

 

When my son was a tiger, he wanted a shark (tiger shark painted with Bengal stripes). there was no way he could cut that out. I did use my bandsaw to get the rough shape, then he used a rasp and sandpaper to make a little smoother. As a 1st grader, he lost interest in getting it REALLY smooth. He loved doing the painting with stripes. It wasn't the fastest and it wasn't the prettiest, but he was proud of that car. there were a lot of cars in the Pack that made his car look slow.

 

As a Wolf, we started with a coping saw, then rasp file, then sandpaper. He did some, then I did some, through each step until it looked done. But it looked like I made it. As a new ACM, I decided to buy a new kit and had him do 90% of the work, including all the painting. I did work with him closer to show how to smooth the burrs off the axles and wheels, how insert the axles, and how to use graphite. I wanted him to be a little more competitive, but I didn't expect him to win.

 

this year, my son is a Bear and I am the CM. I didn't like to see the cars where the fathers had better tools an know-how go really fast, and the other cars go really slow. I took the knowledge that I learned last year and shared the speed secrets with the rest of the Pack. We even had several workshops to help the boys who needed it. This year was the most competitive race we have had in the three races my son has been a part of. He again did most of the cutting, filing and sanding (still a little rough) and the painting. I had him go through the smoothing of the axles and wheels, himself, with my guidance. Somehow he won his rank, again, but not the Pack race.

 

I can't imagine buying a pre-built car. that is the half the fun. The other half is the excitement of the boys when they check-in their cars and when the races are starting. We had one boy who got last place in every heat. I gave him the Cubmaster Special trophy for his great sportsmanship, as he still had a GREAT time. That's what PWD is all about.

 

 

[Crossramwedge]

When my son was a Bear he built a Car from the kit that was supplied to him by the Pack. The kit was an official BSA pinewood Deby Kit. When we took the car to the race and it went through the inspection it was disqualified because it had an elongated wheel base. My son did not know any better and neither did I. After all it was an official kit. Apparently the axles slots where mis cut and it caused the wheel base to be elongated. The axles where located to far apart. He did not get to race because He could not move the axles. Always check your official cars to make sure that it fits the "legal dimensions and descriptions" of an official Pinewood derby car.

 

That episode caused me to become a knowledgeable "Pinewood" Derby car Inspector. I have been the Chief inspector at several "Pinewood" Derbys. Let me tell you that unless you know what to look for a car may look completely legal. Yet it may be constructed with "illegal" items bought over the internet that give the car a winning edge that is nearly impossible for a legal car to over come. You have official BSA axles that have been trued, straightened, lathed and polished by machinery that cost several thousand dollars. The same is true with official BSA wheels. Machinery is used to lathe the wheels for roundness and lightness. The machinery is computer operated. 90% of these types of axles and wheels are illegal as described by "Official BSA" rules and regulations that are used for the "Normal" type of Pinewood Derby races held for Cub Scouts.

 

Most of the time these cars get past a "Pack" inspector and move on to a District race. The problem comes in when a guy like me may be sitting behind the inspection desk. I have caught several of these cars and have had to disqualify them. The first line of defense ( From the Dad, Grandad ect.) is that the car passed the "Pack" Inspection. Why? Because the "Pack" inspector did not know what to look for. We keep a supply of official wheels and axles on hand so these Cars can be "repaired" and the Cub can possibly still get to race the car.

 

I am going to be inspecting cars at a District event in a couple of weeks. I will be suprised if I do not have to disqualify two or more cars for "Blatant" illegal equipment used on some these cars. Whom pays for this, the Cub. Its A shame.

 

Some may say just let the Cubs race the illegal cars. No big deal. HMMMM? I say what about honesty, fairness and rewards earned for hard work.

[funscout]

Crossamwedge, that's too bad about your son's car being DQed when it wasn't even his fault. Whenever we had a scout who made an honest mistake or in your case, a factory design flaw, we had the boys vote as to whether the car should be allowed or not. We made sure the cubs knew that the boy in question did not purposely break a rule, and we had them think of how they would feel if their car hadn't been allowed. I'm proud to say that each time, our boys voted to allow the "illegal" car to race. If it had been a situation where a boy broke the rules year after year, then we wouldn't have been so lenient, but we felt that the derby was for the boys and was supposed to be fun, not cutthroat.

 

I wish we would have thought to have a winner for the slowest car! I love that. Occasionally we had boys who raced a block of wood, because they forgot to work on their car, but still wanted to race.

[SSScout]

 

Oh My...

 

http://comics.com/the_buckets/2009-03-25/

 

 

 

 

[gcnphkr]

ARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!

Only when the local derby starts making their own rules do you have these problems.

 

When we took the car to the race and it went through the inspection it was disqualified because it had an elongated wheel base.

There is no official wheelbase! There is a minimum track width but the axels can be as close or as far apart as the scout desires as long as it does not exceed the maxium car length.

 

The machinery is computer operated. 90% of these types of axles and wheels are illegal as described by "Official BSA" rules and regulations that are used for the "Normal" type of Pinewood Derby races held for Cub Scouts.

They are perfectly legal based on the "Official BSA" rules. They may be illegal with your local rules but there is nothing in the "Official BSA" that says you cannot sand/file/grind/lath your axels to needles or your wheels to waffers. As long as they start as BSA wheels you can do anything you want to them.

Make whatever local rules you want. But don't claim that your rules are the "Official BSA" rules.

[mmcnulty]

Our derby is this Sunday and I've been asked to help check-in cars. Does anyone have a template "check-in" sheet which includes all these "cheat factors" to look for? I'd love to use one so that there is consistency in the process. Thanks.

[gpraceman2]

Unless BSA has updated the little insert in the kits, I read the following:

 

"Important: The Race Committe should decide on rules and race procedures, then have them printed and distributed to all participants at least two weeks before the race."

 

The so called "Official BSA rules", consititue a small paragraph on the sheet included in the car kits. Many feel that these are quite insufficient, so they put out their own rules, which BSA looks to officially condone.

 

I do agree that the sheet does not state a required spec for wheelbase. With a rather inexpensive tool (Pro Body Tool), racers can drill their own axle holes instead of using the possibly crooked slots. So, I do feel that any rule restricting wheelbase is obsolete and should be eliminated. However, having said that, our district has a rule that the nail tips must be visible, even if the axle slots are not used. I agree with that, since there are axles from other kits or available aftermarket that are machined pins, not nails. The pins have a blunt end. We just have racers drill a hole in the bottom of the car so the nail tip is visible.

 

It seems this sheet was published back in 1997, and I assume has not been changed since then. A lot has happened with Pinewood Derby since 1997! There are now inexpensive tools available from numerous online suppliers that can help scouts do what used to require much more expensive tools, which most racers did not have access to.

 

Back in 1997, there also was not the issue of people easily being able to buy fully or mostly built cars. There is a statement at the beginning of the kit insert sheet that says "Cars should be built by the Cub Scout with some adult guidance". Notice the word "should", not "must", and also notice that this is not included in the "rules" section. So, it can seem to some people that it is not prohibited to buy fully or mostly completed car. It is taken as a suggestion.

 

Yet, with inexpensive tools now available and people being able to easily buy fully or mostly built cars, the "rules in the box" have not kept up. We are well past time for an overhaul!!!(This message has been edited by gpraceman2)

[Eagledad]

>>Our derby is this Sunday and I've been asked to help check-in cars. Does anyone have a template "check-in" sheet which includes all these "cheat factors" to look for? I'd love to use one so that there is consistency in the process. Thanks.

[twoodjr]

My pack doesn't do it, but a neighboring pack holds PWD workshops where this is the only place to make the derby cars. Both parent and Cub have to attend, and the work is done by Cub Scouts, with parental assistance. Power tools and other hazardous tools are strictly done by an adult. The derby cars for that pack, never go home!

 

The thought of spending $100 for a $5 hunk of wood is ridiculous! Maybe you want to take that parent aside and say "hey man, I heard from chit chat in the pack that you spent $100 to purchase your car. I'm not going to judge you, but if it is true, think of what you lost because your son will never say, my car won because of what my dad and I did together."

[packsaddle]

I skipped the one about South Park and the one about disqualification. Those were really popular too.

[acco40]

Maybe it's the testosterone in me, maybe the engineer in me but I'd welcome the challenge to beat Mr. Ebay at the race!

 

One thing I pushed our pack to have is an "open" heat (i.e. so Dads could race their cars against other Dads). We let Moms reace but for some unknow reason, they thought we were juvenile. Can't figure that one out!

 

Having the open heat made the overbearing fathers put their emphasis on their own car and not their sons.

[sbemis1]

I can recall DQing only one car over 5 years (rules were handed out and emphasised, and repeated). Boy and Granddad were informed it would race, but could not win anything (software made this easy). Granddad was, um, unhappy. Actually he was even more unhappy to watch the car finish 2nd or 3rd in all of its heats . . . .

[OhioCubmaster2011]

While everyone here has some good points.. And maybe its the Mom in me but while my pack is required to have boy involvement in building their cars (sanding, painting, decorating) I much prefer the adults to do all of the cutting for safety issues. And as much as I dislike the idea of the "pre-cut" car bodies (I still require them to go buy the tires and axles from BSA) you can purchase at places like Hobby Lobby I do not disallow them for the simple fact that many of our boys do not have a parent or the equipment to cut the car out for them. Yes the car might be pre-cut but the boy still gas to sand, paint, decorate, make sure it meets all weight,height requirements, ect.

 

We had some issues at our Blue and Gold/Pinewood Derby last yr (parents arguing among themselves) and as I stressed at the parent meeting the following week to address those issues.. It was not about the parents or what the parents felt was fair or unfair.. I was there to make it a special night for the boys. That although I do not know every boys home life I do know that for many boys this was the one thing out of the year that was special to them as they may not get that special recognition at home like celebrating a birthday or other holidays that many of us try to make special days for our children. It is for them and about them. So what if one boy was 10 mins late for registration deadline. Its not like an 8 yr old can drive himself to the banquet hall.

[BadenP]

Personally I think the Pinewood Derby has become the most devisive, political,and just plain nasty events in all of Cubbing. Why, because the adults, mainly Dads, have taken control leaving their cubs out of the picture entirely until race day. I have seen packs dissolve or break apart over the adult leaders and parents arguing and almost coming to blows thinking they were running a Nascar race instead of just letting the boys race their own cars.

 

One way my old pack got around this was to have a two day build your car event, which only the boy was allowed to touch his car, except for the sawing where a select few adults were allowed to trim it down to what the CUB wanted. No outside nonregulation parts could be brought in and added to any car ,and no dad was allowed to participate in the cars construction or detailing. The cars were left at the pack site until race day and only after the derby was over was the boy allowed to take his car home. Amazingly all the adult arguments ended, no DQ cars, no cheating, and most of all the boys were allowed to just have fun and race their cars for prizes. Now over twenty years later that pack is still doing the pinewood derby the same way.