aol dilemma

[Bob White]

BW can't seem to separate the Boy Scout joining requirement age from the mandatory separation from the Cub Scout program age, which is what is being discussed in this thread.

 

Not true, if you had read the post you would have seen that what I shared came from the Cub Scout Leader Book.

 

Yes you can award something to someone that does not deserve it look at the Silver Beaver, Award of Merit,

 

Yikes, that has a distinct taste of sour grapes. Those are not recognitions you "earn" by meeting standardized requirements. Those are honors rewarded to you because a person or person nominated you and a committee of peers reviewed and accepted the nomination. If your council is like most Longhaul when you recieved these recognitions then you were probably on the selection committee the next year. If your committee chose someone to recieve either of those recognition then your actions are what made them deserving of the award, just as much as their actions that they were nominated for.

 

AS for the content of the Webelos Leader Handbook, there seems to be a difference between that and the Cub Scout Leader book. Which is why it is best to contact your local council's registrar.

 

BW

 

 

 

 

[LongHaul]

BW,

 Look back at the Cub Scout Leaders book, the info is on page 21-12 in my edition and, it refers to JOINING requirements for Boy Scouts. It refers to when a boy CAN join Boy Scouts not when he MUST leave Cub Scouts. If a boy is double promoted and graduates 5th grade at 10 he does not HAVE to leave Cub Scouts. As for the Silver Beaver and Award of Merit there definitely are requirements that are "supposed" to be met but in actuality all that is necessary is that the nominating committee approve your application.

Ed for someone that repeatedly has said that whether one knows for a fact that a boy didn't do the requirements for a merit badge or not is irrelevant as long as the MBC signed off, how can you now say that anything other than the approval of the person delegated to give such approval makes a difference. Is it proper NO is it right NO will it negatively affect the boy in my opinion Yes but can it be done? Yes all the CM OR WDL has to do is make the award. If a CM or DL puts in an advancement reprort that lists advancment for a boy that never did the work it still gets credited why is this different?

LongHaul

[Bob White]

Again, had you looked at the post you would have seen that my regerence was to page 22-1 and not 21-12.

 

The only requirements for the two scouting awards you mentioned are basically being a registered Scouter, giving service to youth, and being accepted by the selection committee. It is a very wide net that is cast. Anyone who recieved those awards are deserving by the fact that they were selected by the committee. It would of course be silly to think that any selection will please everyone. But it would not seem will please everyone personally, but it would be ungracious to label them undeserving, simply because you disapprove of them even though the people responsible for the selection chose them.

[Scouting Mom]

"Again, had you looked at the post you would have seen that my regerence was to page 22-1 and not 21-12."

 

Do you have the latest version of the Leader book? Because I do, and page 22-1 doesn't say anything about when a boy can or must move to Boy Scouts, however on page 22-4 it says: "Note: Although a Webelos Scout reaching age 11 or completing the 5th grade and at least 10 years old is eligible to become a Boy Scout, he may remain in the pack for six months after his 11th birthday or until he completes fifth grade, whichever is later. Webelos dens usually graduate together and form a new patrol in the troop. Grade-based Webelos dens should graduate in February of the fifth-grade year."

 

That is from the 2006 Printing of the Cub Scout Leader Book.

[evmori]

Ed, reality in my neck of the woods is that we do report AOL but that it would be unheard of for council to verify or check it.

 

It might not be verified, LisaBob, but doing the right thing is part of our job.

 

Sure a Webelos can hang with the Pack for that additional 6 months, but why? He can't earn anything & will probably get bored to tears. He should move on up to a Troop & get acclimated!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Lisabob]

You won't hear me disagreeing with your first statement Ed!

 

As for the second one - well it really depends on the boy, though in most cases I would agree with you. A couple of years ago we had two boys cross into the troop who were not ready for boy scouting. They lacked social skills and emotional maturity (one had a documented disability, the other I think was just a bit young for his age, shy, and a little sheltered). Both wanted to stay with cub scouts through the end of 5th grade and technically they could have. They came from packs with a mixed Webelos I/II den where the WDL was continuing on with the pack for another year. But instead they joined us in Feb. along with a bunch of other scouts. Both were unhappy, cried and whined a lot, didn't fit in well, and quit within 4 months.

 

Maybe an extra few months as webelos would not have helped them. But it certainly couldn't have hurt them. Honestly they might have been better off visiting the troop on occasion for day events as webelos guests for a few more months, instead of being boy scouts and carrying all the responsibility which troop members bear. It was just too much for them at the time.

 

Incidentally, both boys re-joined scouts with another troop about a year later and seem to be more capable of handling the demands of boy scouting now.

 

But in the case that dibbus describes in his original post, yeah, this older boy is probably ready to move on.

[LongHaul]

Lisabob, What part of dibbus1987's original post made you think the older boy was ready to move on? All I see is that both boys joined at the same time and that the older is already 11 and the younger won't be 10 1/2 till August. There is no mention of maturity or readiness for crossover.

 LongHaul

[Gunny2862]

LongHaul,

No mention of maturity is made, true.

But the older boy is old enough and will have his AoL.

Without meeting him and judging for yourself are you saying to turn him down?

 

The younger boy is not eligible so his maturity doesn't come in to the discussion.

[Bob White]

You were right Scouting Mom, time to upgrade the cub library, Thanks.

BW

[LongHaul]

Gunny,

Not having met the older boy I say ask him what he wants, don't decide for him. He and his brother joined together and he may want to stay with his brother, this is new to him. My position is try to accomodate the older boy. If I were CM the younger would not receive his AOL until he met ALL the requirements PERIOD. Next if the Pack Committee and the CM are open to the idea of holding an AOL in August so the younger boy can graduate at 10 1/2 instead of completing his Webelos 2 program THEN and only then would I be open to awarding both AOLs at the same time that being in August.

For those who say the older boy would be hanging around for nothing I ask is pin aquisition and rank advancement all that Webelos is about? Just because I qualify for the AOL I can't continue to work on activity pins I may not have? I can't act as a denner? LongHaul(This message has been edited by LongHaul)

[Gunny2862]

LongHaul,

 

Hey, I agree fully with that approach!

 

I just want to note that we ALSO need to educate the parents as to why it is that way. Since we do need their involvement to (at a minimum) register the boys regardless of how they want to do it.

[Lisabob]

LongHaul, you're correct that nothing in the initial post indicates the maturity level of the older boy in this particular situation. I suppose when I wrote my previous post I was thinking of "most boys" who are often chomping at the bit to move on by about this point in their Webelos II year. But it is certainly possible that the boy dibbus is talking about is not "most boys" and indeed as we've established, he doesn't HAVE to join boy scouts right this instant. My bad for assuming.