How much time does it take?

[SagerScout]

Vivid memories of my first campout (in cabins) with my Brownie troop.... Pancakes over our campstove were served at about 11:30 am, after a 3+-hour ordeal. Cleanup extended to 1 pm. We didn't need our lunch food that day, just fast-forwarded to dinner. Mind you, these were 3rd graders.

 

Two years later, the same group did pancakes with bacon and juice in about 35 minutes, and could cleanup all dishes and pots in 20.

 

Two more years pass, and oddly, we're back to slower performance because there's more horsing around. But now we have wiser girls who might say in the menu planning phase "hey, we don't want to be cooking all day" - how about frozen waffles?" Or PopTarts. (I bring my own breakfast on PopTart days as I detest them.)

 

You did the right thing. Two hours isn't the worst performance I've ever seen, in fact, it isn't all that bad. They'll never get it if you don't let them goof it up. This is a classic example of the punishment being inherent in the mistakes (hunger, missed hikes, etc,) so there's no reason for you to think up anything else. If anything like it happens again, my only suggestion might be - and you probably did this - to keep an eye on proceedings and have some discreet consultations with the PL to see if you can suggest ideas to him to make it go better.

 

 

Julia

 

[dancinfox]

I have a saying I tell all my scouts. "With every choice, comes consequences." Every time they make a choice, be it cooking, cleaning, merit badges, campsite selection or behavior choices, they all have consequences. At summer camp last week, two of my scouts decided to prank call the operator at the camps payphone. I quickly found out from the other scouts. The younger scout came back to camp to face the Scoutmaster rath, and the older one decided to go to the waterfront to participate in the water carnivile. Each had different consequences, both wrote a 500 word essay, on why I don't use the pay phone in that way. They both came up with additional punishment, added length on the next rank and losing the merit badges completed that week. Both had to give their essays to their parents on return from camp.

My point is, that my committee and parents know that this helps them grow and mature. They are responsible for their actions, and have to face the consequences.

[Chippewa29]

For a couple of years, the kids, in order to save time, were doing incredibly basic meals (especially breakfast and lunch). Breakfast got to the point of a bagel and cream cheese and juice (if we were lucky). Fortunately, a couple of new parents spoke up and said they felt the kids should be eating better (our previous SM is someone who rarely eats breakfast at all and his attitude for Sunday mornings was to get up, pack up, and be out of there ASAP). Also, the kids got tired of bagels or cold cereal or oatmeal (a really elaborate meal). Part of the problem was that the kids weren't expected to get up at any time. They just slept until they felt like getting up (basically, another trait of the previous regime).

 

I'm calling a lady who is on the training staff for our district to come in to our committee meeting on the basis of promoting the training coming up in the fall. I've discussed this with her when I went to training last spring and she said it is a very common problem (as we've seen by these boards). I'm hoping that she'll be able to promote these people going to training and help these parents (who really are very good people that I like a lot) realize that the kids can run themselves with minimal adult intervention. It just takes time and patience and the ability to let the kids make mistakes.

[OldGreyEagle]

Dancinfox,

 

I take great umbrage and issue with you for denying the two phone "jokesters" the merit badges they "earned" at camp and adding to their requirements for rank advancement. Not you nor any other leader can tamper with BSA requirements. You can make them write the essay, you can make them call their parents because they need a ride home as they are no longer welcome at camp. You could have the whole situation reviwed at the troop committee level to see if a suspension or outright dismissal is warranted, but you cannot take away what is earned or add to requirements no matter how justified you feel.

 

 

[eagle90]

OGE, you beat me to it. You cannot take away something that the scout has already earned, nor can you increase the requirements for their next rank. I think you should look at a more fair "punishment".

[Chippewa29]

Fellow Scouters,

 

I understand your concerns when someone brings up something that may not be entirely BSA standard. However, please be careful to keep a thread on the subject intended or a reasonable off shoot. Many of the threads in this forum start off about one subject, but then tend to turn into (very similar) debates on BSA policy or something else unrelated to the original intent of the thread. If someone starts a post on tying knots on a campout, please don't start up about the cost of uniforms.

 

Thank You,

Chippewa29

[OldGreyEagle]

Chippewa is right, to prevent a thread hijacking, if you have a comment on the topic of not awarding earned merit badges as punishement please go to

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewthread.asp?threadID=12381

 

Otherwise known as "Mr Fox Please Reconsider"

 

Sorry Chippewa, my bad

[T337SM]

Stay the course your on the right track.Practice makes perfect my Dad used to say.I was a scout in a troop that done everything without the adults butting in as a kid,it was great!I also just reorganized a troop that wasnt boy run,WOW what a headache its been.But our scouts do everything for themselves unless they are in dire need and ask for help.They will get better and faster,until then allow more time and make things a challenge to get better.Make things a competition as another scouter said and make it fun! Keep menus simple bag breakfast,foil dinners,stews in dutch ovens,etc.It works for my troop and we have more time for activities.If they want a challenging meal make the dinner a little more complicated so they learn cooking skills.That way there only holding up the campfire.Campfires are better late at night anyway.I have a troop simular to yours e-mail me at T337SM if you want to share ideas,you can never have enough. Chuck

[ihawkeye00]

Chippewa29,

This is my first post but, I have been a long time reader and I have picked up a wealth of information and help from reading everyone elses posts.

In regards to 'how much time does it take?' I agree with OldGreyEagle, 'as long as it takes'. But as far as parents or other leaders griping at the boys for their lack of performance, they are way off base. I have told my parents and leaders that our Troop is supposed to be a "safe place" for the boys to "fail", then we help guide them through their failures to a successful next time. And I did say help guide them not do it for them.

 

It sounds to me like you are on the right track.