Webelos program question

[Trailblazermom]

Infoscout

Yes, i know that they cannot work on electives after the fact but that is how it was done last year, the kids had graduation and then worked on electives and got arrow points before we started the new year scouting year. (just read this from the back of the Bear handbook, "You may earn Arrow Points until you join your Webelos Den" So going by our pack he would still be a Bear until August when the new school year starts then. So not sure if that changes anything.

And "rocking the boat" is exactly what I feel. Webs DL has the leaders guide and has been trained, or at least I think. As for the summer Webs planning I really don't know what if any the plans are. I am planning on talking to DL with all these things brought up.

Thanks

trailblazermom

 

(This message has been edited by Trailblazermom)

[Pack212Scouter]

I hate to sound critical, but I kinda have to here. It sounds like your Pack isn't running the advancement timetable correctly. Cub Scouts are supposed to start their rank upon completion of a grade. The date may vary depending on your school system. It is commonly considered June 1. Around here it is in May. By running it the way that your pack does it is really shorting their Webelos time for completion of items.

 

FYI, in case you don't know. Electives for arrow points can be accumulated throughout the year. They just can't "earn" them until they get their rank completed.(This message has been edited by Pack212Scouter)

[Trailblazermom]

Yes I agree the Pack is not running the way it should be in terms of the advancement timetable. I just spoke with the Webs leader and was told the Bears wouldn't be in the Webs den until Aug. However my son could meet with Webs ever other week in the summer.

I also was told my son can work on his Webs and AOL past the age of 11. From everything I have read that is not correct.

I am getting frustrated because Webs leader seems to be running things according to persons own rules.

trailblazermom

Thanks for the clarification about the electives.

[Lisabob]

With regard to the age cut-off for AOL, this is not as set in stone as you may think. Some units do use strict age cut offs (mainly LDS) for eligibility to be cub scouts (and therefore to earn AOL). However, most units use grade in school as the guideline. And boys who are in the 5th grade can be webelos until the end of 5th grade even if they already turned 11. Consequently, yes, your Webelos DL is correct in asserting that boys can work toward AOL even after they turn 11, if your pack is not strictly age-based (LDS) and if the boy is still a registered webelos scout. What a boy cannot do is cross over to boy

scouts and still work toward earning a cub scout award.

 

All that said, I'm not sure I understand why you are in such a hurray for your son to fly through the webelos program? Yes you could cram it all into a short time frame, but what is to be gained by this?

 

Before you decide that your Webelos DL is not doing the job right, stop and consider that maybe that DL is trying to balance competing demands from lots of parents. As a former WDL myself I know that some families wanted to meet all summer long but most did not and a few even got really annoyed when I tried scheduling more than one or two den activities during the summer months. Trying to come up with a happy medium was challenging at times and it was more challenging when parents (most of whom were not trained and didn't want to be DLs themselves either) insisted that I accommodate their child first, to the cost of other children in the group.

[ScoutNut]

Lisa, the problem is not that Trailblazermom wants to "fly" through the Webelos program - Her son is in an unusual position, he is currently a Bear going into 4th grade and Webelos at the end of the year, however, he will turn 11 BEFORE he completes 4th grade. So her son only has 1 year to complete the entire Webelos program.

 

From her posts, the actual problem seems to be that her son's den leader (soon to be Webelos den leader) does not want to work with her and her son to ensure that he has the opportunity to earn AOL before he crosses to a BS Troop. The den leader also seems to be giving mixed signals and incorrect information.

[ScoutNut]

Trailblazermom - I am hoping that the problem is that your son's den leader is still functioning in Bear mode and has not yet taken the Webelos training or started to think ahead to next year. I am hoping that (contrary to what it sounds like) she is not trying to blow you off, hoping you will leave her den and save her the problem of having to deal with your sons needs. Positive thinking!

 

Purchase a Webelos Handbook and look thru it. Yes, at the Webelos level, you are no longer considered Akela with carte blanc to approve any and all requirement work. However, that does not mean that your son can not work on his own. He has to have permission form his den leader and he has to make sure to document what he has done so that he can show it to his den leader for approval. Take pictures, bring in completed projects, keep a journal, get signed notes from teachers/lifeguards/etc stating what he has completed.

 

Sometime at the end of the school year sit down with your sons leader and find out which Activity Pins she is planning on doing and when. You don't want to duplicate work. You might also get in touch with the 5th grade Webelos leader to see if your son could attend some of their meetings, campouts, and Boy Scout outings, and work with them on some of the AOL requirements.

 

If your den leader refuses to work with your son, work on your own and with the 5th grade den. If you don't wait, and start this summer, your son should be able to cross to Boy Scouts in February with the 5th grade den - and with his AOL!

 

[Lisabob]

OK I did somehow miss that he will be 11 before starting 4th grade but still I don't think that is a major issue. I know for a fact that many boys in my district are still in 5th grade when they turn 12 and are allowed to remain registered as cubs, and to earn their AOL. There is a grade-based allowance for them to remain registered as cubs all the way through the end of 5th grade.

 

Due to the fact that they are older, they have the *option* of joining boy scouts instead of remaining cub scouts, but it is not a mandatory requirement - at least not as understood by our council registrar and professional staff. So I would recommend that trailblazermom contact her council office, ask to speak to the registrar, and find out what they say. I suppose I may be wrong but I'm willing to guess that the registrar will confirm that 5th grade boys are eligible to be webelos scouts on the basis of grade in school, regardless of age.

 

If that's the case then the question is really one of deciding what is best for her own son (and that might go in either direction), and then working with the Webelos DL and possibly the Scoutmaster of a local troop to make it happen.

 

 

 

 

[Trailblazermom]

Lisa, i know it was a misunderstanding/misinterpretation when you asked why I was having my son "fly" through it. Just to clarify no that is not at all what I was trying to do.

ScoutNut summed it up exactly that I have been getting mixed signals. That is why I am asking/questioning this because it is a special circumstance. I just want to make sure that my son will not be short changed in the program.

ScoutNut, I have the Webs handbook and have been reading it and thats why I have a lot of questions and why I am asking them now before we end up off track somewhere. As for a Web II or 5th grade leader there is not one. And no the Webs DL was not a Bear leader.

As to the age/grade guidelines this is where I felt I am getting hung up. An example of this is my now boyscout son at 10 1/2 was told he was a boy scout not a Web and placed in the troop because there wouldn't be enough time to get through webs. He was not yet through with 5th grade. So he has been a Boy scout since.

Now I am reading a BSA Youth Application and it says for Webelos: Must have completed third grade, but not completed fifth or be age 10 but not yet 11 1/2. So that means my son could have another 6 months to work on his Webs stuff? If I seem confused, I am, its adds to the confusion when everyone seems to have their own interpretation of the age guidelines in our Pack. Thanks for reading. I am going to sit done with my son and give him these options and see what he would like to do.

trailblazermom

 

 

 

[Pack212Scouter]

Trailblazermom,

 

The short & simple of it is he does not HAVE to cross over until he leaves the Cub Scout program...which acording to National is.

 

The earliest is 10 1/2 after completion of AOL or 11 years old.

 

The latest is end of either the school year that he turns 11 or the end of Fifth grade, whichever comes first.(This message has been edited by Pack212Scouter)

[Lisabob]

"The latest is end of either the school year that he turns 11 or the end of Fifth grade, whichever comes first."

 

Pack212, where did you find it written that it was whichever came first? I have not seen that (though perhaps I have missed it) and in my neck of the woods people like our council registrar and DEs and unit leaders tend to interpret that as "whichever is more suitable in the eyes of the boy's parents."

[Trailblazermom]

how do i edit part of one of my posts? I guess it only allows you to be able to edit for so long. can someone help me? thanks sorry for the inconvienence.

trailblazermom

[BuffaloSR793]

Webelos is such a great program in Cub Scouts. Partly, because it is a build up to Boy Scouting. Its such a shame that dens don't work together during the summer months. Those are the best months for Scouting.

 

I would get a Webelos book and start learning. It would be great if a couple of the boys in the den could work with you.

 

Here is what you need:

 

A total of 8 activity badges (4 must be: Citizen, Fitness, Readyman and Outdoorsman)

 

1 from Mental Skills group

1 from Technology group

 

2 others.

 

Page 63 in the Webelos book breaks down the AOL requirements. You'll want to earn the Webelos badge first. Earn it by doing Citizen, Fitness and 1 of the others.)

 

Webelos is a fun time. Prepare your son for Boy Scouts. Sometimes just because a boy is old enough, does not mean he's emotionally ready. The best thing you can do is train him and have fun...

[BuffaloSR793]

Webelos is such a great program in Cub Scouts. Partly, because it is a build up to Boy Scouting. Its such a shame that dens don't work together during the summer months. Those are the best months for Scouting.

 

I would get a Webelos book and start learning. It would be great if a couple of the boys in the den could work with you.

 

Here is what you need:

 

A total of 8 activity badges (4 must be: Citizen, Fitness, Readyman and Outdoorsman)

 

1 from Mental Skills group

1 from Technology group

 

2 others.

 

Page 63 in the Webelos book breaks down the AOL requirements. You'll want to earn the Webelos badge first. Earn it by doing Citizen, Fitness and 1 of the others.)

 

Webelos is a fun time. Prepare your son for Boy Scouts. Sometimes just because a boy is old enough, does not mean he's emotionally ready. The best thing you can do is train him and have fun...

[LongHaul]

Why must a Webelos Den meet during the summer for the boys to work on advancement? Family member, Traveler, and Fitness are done with a member of the boys family not the den leader. When the den begins to meet the den leader looks over the work the boy has done over the summer and either explains why the effort was not sufficient or accepts the work and awards the badge. The DL could make waves over the three month active requirement but it's not the boys fault the den had zero meetings but let's face it the boy had 100% attendance for the summer

As for the age at which a boy must leave cub scouts see the Webelos Leader Hand book; Plan B; for a fourth grade Webelos Den Starting in September. Look at the footer after the plan. Although a Webelos Scout reaching the age of 11 or completing fifth grade is eligible to become a Boy Scout, he may remain in the Pack for six months after his Th birthday or until he completes the fifth grade whichever is later.

LongHaul

[Pack212Scouter]

LisaBob, I can't find the printed info that I remember, but this is taken from the National website...

 

"How old (or young) can a boy be to join Cub Scouting?

Cub Scouting is for boys in the first through fifth grades, or 7 to 10 years of age. Boys who are older than 10, or who have completed the fifth grade, can no longer join Cub Scouting, but they may be eligible to join the Boy Scouting or Venturing program."