Webelos program question

[Lisabob]

Right pack212, but that's the thing. It doesn't tell you that you have to join boy scouts if you are 11 (or 12) and in 5th grade. The choice is not dictated by the BSA. Consequently, the dominant interpretation I've seen matches what LongHaul posted and it is typically the parents that get to decide whether the boy should stay with cubs (and his grade-based peers) or go on to boy scouts (and his age-based peers).

 

Trailblazermom, whatever your son ends up doing, there are benefits to both programs. Webelos can be a whole lot of fun and was my favorite time spent with my son in cub scouts. Boy scouts provides an atmosphere of more independence and has its own benefits. I hope your son has a great time, regardless of how this all works out.

[Gunny2862]

In so far as it applies to Boy Scouts.

 

In the words of of my Committee Chair who was the previous Scoutmaster. "One of the biggest predictors of success of any one boy is having him as part of a group of "first years" who are already bonded and crossed over together from Cub Scouting."

 

I personally don't know, but even if it meant rushing him a little bit(or holding him back), I would consider doing what was necessary to have him cross with his Webelos mates.

 

My, still uninformed, opinion.

[LongHaul]

What does the boy want? I had the exact opposite of Trailblazermom with my number 2 son. After transferring to a public school from a private school at the beginning of 2nd. grade he was imediately advanced to third grade. This made him a 3rd grade Wolf, a 4th grade Bear and after graduating 5th grade at 9 1/2 far to immature to be a Boy Scout. The disparity of intelligence and maturity almost prompted his mother and me to send him to a private school for High School but he would have missed out on almost all of his extra curricular activities. What is the boy's maturity level and where will he fit better? Many boys join Boy Scouts at 11, just because this boy took advantage of an available Cub Scout program should not exclude him from being a Boy Scout when he is ready.  In Trailblazermom's case it would seem the immaturity lies with the DL and not the boy.

LongHaul

[beaverlbc]

Is Scouting grade-based or age-based? I know I am coming into this discussion late but felt I needed to comment because like tralblazermom said, this issue is very confusing.

Part of the confusion comes from the fact that CS is grade-based and BS is age-based. It is almost impossible to blend these to systems together. I went around and around on this with my district recently because (as someone has already mentioned) they are in a hurry to move Webelos to BS-actually they needed more BS numbers. I believe I finally got several district people to understand where I was coming from. At least they stopped hassling me about moving my boys earlier than they were ready.

 

When a boy does not fit the usual CS mold, the decision of placement is up to the parents and Scout. This is discribed when discussing special needs boys joining Scouts. The rule was made for disabled boys that might have special needs circumstances. And technically, those boys will eventually need a letter from his doctor to stay in CS. However, many states now have educational standards that must be passed in order to advance in school. In my state (FL) we now frequently find boys 1-2 years below their age. For example a 4th grader may be 11 and in extreme cases even a 9-10 yr old 2nd grader.

 

Because CS is grade-based, it must be up to the parent (and boy) to determine if he will join the den of his grade or his age (or somewhere in between). The CM or other leaders can advise but the final decision must be the parents. I have never heard of a boy being kicked out of CS because of his age if he had not completed 5th grade. Some people may want to (usually because they want to list him as a BS).

 

I almost always have boys joining at the beginning of 5th grade. If they are 11 (or almost), I explain the choices to the parent and the boy--go to BS or be in Webelos for 9 months. This includes an explaination of the importance of the Arrow of Light. And then they decide, not me and not council. Trailblazermom, I would suggest talking to your district exc. and coucil registration office and find out what your council prefers, but I do not think they will object to a boy staying in CS until the end of 5th grade. It truely is your decision and you must look at what is best for your son. Does he want to be with his 4th grade classmates? Leave him there if he doesn't object. Let him enjoy Webelos. Then, during the year ask these questions. Is he getting bored? Is he having fun and enjoying himself? Let that be the deciding factor of whether he "does the program" in 1 school year or not.

 

I have a comment on another part of the ealier discussion also. Several people pointed out to trailblazermom that her son had the summer to work on badges. If that pack doesn't cross the boys over until fall, he is not a Webelos until fall. So the first thing you need to do trailblazermom is to get the pack to start doing the crossover at the end of school instead. For help in doing this I suggest getting your Unit Commissioner, District Commisssioner, and people from the District Training Team to talk to your Committee and find out why they feel they need to wait to advance their Scouts. A boy is considered to be in the next grade as soon as he passes a grade. So convince the unit to change their Crossover Date. Start it this year and your son will be able to work on advancement over the summer.

 

Many packs have a May or June Crossover and then allow a boy to complete his rank from the previous year over the summer. He can't use something for his old rank advancement towards his current rank advancement. And we usually do not allow boys to focus on earning arrowpoints. If they have just a few activities to complete the 10 required for an arrowpoint, that is allowed. This entire concept is decided by each pack. It is a committee decision.

 

One last comment. Several people stated that summer was the most important time for campouts, etc for Webelos. That is true only in some parts of the country. Down here in FL, much of the summer is too hot to do things like camping. Day Camps occur in June and a few in early July. August has almost no day-long outdoor activities for most Packs. It's just too hot.

[Pack212Scouter]

BeaverLBC, you commented "If that pack doesn't cross the boys over until fall, he is not a Webelos until fall."

 

That is actually not correct. Cub Scouts is either age based (LDS) or grade based (most other packs). Cub Scouts should advance at the end of their school year. This may pose some confusion issues for Packs with year-round schools, I am not sure when those schools usually advance grade. Some Packs or districts might even consider the next grade to begin at the begining of the school year, however this really shorts the Webelos program which needs more time (and I don't think is correct but like most things in Cubs "grey" is the area that it resides).

 

Reguardless of all this, when the Boy Scout Troop likes to do their cross-over has nothing at all to do when ranks in Cub Scouts are advanced in rank, including into Webelos. This is simply the date that the particular Troop likes to get their boys into their program. With our troop it is the begining of March because they want to get the new boys involved before summer arrives.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

[Gunny2862]

Concur with Pack 212's most recent post. But we like to get the boys that way so they join with a group of peers. See my most recent post above.

 

We (our Troop) will take new Scouts at anytime throughout the year but recognize that Scouts who come in as a group are traditionally more successful in the program than those who join alone.

[Pack212Scouter]

Correct Gunny,

 

I have seen Troops that split the boys up into their patrols and those that keep them together. Our Pack traditionally advances one or two entire patrols up to our Troop. The boys seem to do much better that first year if kept with their peers.

[beaverlbc]

pack212scouter, I agree with you 100 percent and I tried to state that. When a child has completed a grade he is now in the next grade up. However, there are some packs that will argue that because they do not crossover boys at end of school year, the boy is not the next CS rank until the fall when their unit crosses them over. The thing to do is get Disrict help in getting the leadership of said unit to change their thinking.

 

I also agree that boys that cross over to a troop as a group do much better then those that crossover on their own. It is not just when the troop want the boy to cross over. If that boy wants to do the work to earn his AOL, he needs the opportunity to do so. So, even if a troop wants boys to cross in March and you have 5th graders that start in the fall, he may need until the end of school. He deserves that chance.