May lose pack

[Crossramwedge]

I learned last night that the CO of our pack is thinking of dissolving our Pack. Our CO is a good size church and the pack has been in existance since 1988. We have 60 kids in the Pack. Last year we lost our CC,CM,ACM,Event person and a Bear leader. Our old CM moved up to be this years CC but only did so because she relized that we where in trouble. She had wanted to move on to a District position. We got a new CM just recently because he knew that we would fold without one and essentially was "forced" to take the position. We picked up one more volunteer, new to scouting. The CO did not notify any one of their wanting to shut us down. We found out because the DE (NEW, no Scout experience) talked to our Webelos 1 leader (40 years in scouting)wanting to know if it was possible to move our Charter to a nearby school. She did not know he was involved in our pack. To make a long story short, we have been struggling all year because we have little help and we can not seem to get the parents of our kids to get involved. They do not help the kids meet their goals so the kids can advance. There is only so much we can do in our meetings. The parents have to be involved also. We meet on Sunday nights and basically have became a baby sittiing service. The Boy Scouts are also chartered by this church but are doing fine and they are not in danger of losing their charter. I am involved in the Cubs, Scout's and a Crew. Plate is full. Time to fight? Suggestions ?

[packsaddle]

That story sends shivers up my back it is so similar to what happened just as I became CM. Volunteers 'graduating', numbers declining, the CO didn't care if we lived or died. And the new DE as well as another pack actively recruiting boys away from this pack without mentioning it to me or the CO.

 

Without a CO you're dead. Without leadership that is highly motivated (not to mention 'trained' in the program) your chances are not good.

 

I managed to turn things around but the CO at least was a neutral force. With 60 boys, if you keep at least 1/3 of them in a reconstituted unit and a CO of some sort, and if the leadership gets up to speed quickly, you could survive.

The troop, if it depends on that pack as a feeder unit, will eventually feel the pain. However, this CO couldn't grasp that relationship so a few years after the cubs diminished, the troop nearly died as well. I tried vainly to explain all this to the DE (dumber than a bucket of nails) and the council (didn't seem to care). Long story short....you're going to have to rely on whatever resources you and the remaining leaders can bring to bear. Don't expect help from anyone outside.

I wish you well and good luck.

[Lisabob]

Do you know anybody involved with the troop? If so, now is a good time to invite one or more of them out for coffee and ask for their help. They ought to be very concerned because if your pack folds, it will probably dry up their main source of new boy scouts too. Perhaps some of them are willing to go to the CO and make the case for continuing to charter your pack. Perhaps some of them can come back and help the pack with leadership issues. Or perhaps some of them can help the pack transition to a more stable CO.

 

But, with 60 boys I am really surprised you can't find enough adults to make this work. Are the parents aware that everyone in the pack is a volunteer? And why does the CO seem to want to shed itself of the pack anyway? Typically DEs are very conservative about moving units away from COs and this is usually a situation where the DE and IH have a long sit-down meeting to see what the story is.

 

And I hope the school your new DE has in mind is a private one, not a public one? Because the BSA actively discourages public schools as COs (my understanding, anyway).

 

 

 

 

[Crossramwedge]

The Troop is well aware of what is going on and has interceded on the Cubs behalf. Two of The original founders of the Pack/Troop have gone to bat for the Cubs, though one of them is no longer really involved with the Pack/Troop he is still looked up to and respected by the CO on these matters. The other founder is still heavily involved in the Troop. (SM) . The leaders in the Pack/Troop have complete trust in them. The Packs CC and CM still want to approach the CO. They still do not really know what is going on and would like a little input in this procedure. The Pack as it stands now needs to be restructured and we definitely need more help. The Parents of the Cubs really need to be informed of what the program is about and that they need to get involved.

 

The school is a private school and in fact is heavily backed and supported by the CO. It is located on the CO's property. This may work out if this comes about. The original Pack would have to dissolve. The "New" CO would have to get the Pack Chartered, provide trained leaders and so on. They then could meet on another night other than Sunday nights. The other thing that happens is that the boy's would be there for the "Pack" instead and not be mixed up with the boy's who are dropped off at the church while the parents go in to the service thereby basically providing a baby sitting service.

 

The Troop should still have a "Feeder" pack. Its just a shame that a 30 year old Pack would go under for this to come about.

[ScoutNut]

I am a bit unclear why your CO would be OK with the Pack's charter moving to the CO's school when they don't want the Pack.

 

If your current CO has not provided trained leaders, why would you think the CO's school would?

 

The Pack's CC needs to contact their COR, UC and DE and have a sit down meeting with the CO to see what exactly can be done.

 

If the entire problem is no leadership than the CC and COR need to sit down and pick the best people in the Pack to approach - personally. The mass appeal, hoping for someone to come forward on their own, rarely works. With 60 boys in the Pack there should be at least 1 parent in each den who would make good leader material.

 

BTW - if your CO no longer wants to charter a Pack, and is willing to release the charter completely, the Pack can take their history and Pack number to another CO. I would recommend that the Pack's CC start shopping around for a CO that is not affiliated with their current CO.

 

[Sephrina]

Is it possible your CO is looking to offer a different youth option on Sunday's, so they think the pack needs to go? I have been involved with a religious youth program where we battled this at our sponser church. If so, maybe a change in meeting night is all you need.

[Vicki]

Scoutnut, reading CRW's e-mail, I'm not sure where you picked up the idea that the prospective school is associated with the current CO? All I see is "nearby school"?

 

Vicki

[packsaddle]

Vicki, from the second message by CRW, "The school is a private school and in fact is heavily backed and supported by the CO. It is located on the CO's property."

[Vicki]

Thanks, Pack.

 

Just an observation CRW, having re-read your e-mails, it sounds like you might be expecting help finding leader material from your CO? Other services and/or guidance from your CO other than a place to meet? From what I've gathered (and my own experience) it's a rare CO that provides any service other than the basic meeting place - and if there's an availability conflict, their own program will beat the scouts' program hands down. I know, we know the scouts are their program too, but that's not how they think. The worst part is when the CO decides there's a space conflict and doesn't even let you know there's a problem (personal experience talkin' on that one).

 

I'll second the one-on-one approach to finding volunteers. Mass appeals makes it too easy to think that someone else is going to step up and handle it.

 

V(This message has been edited by Vicki)

[ScoutNut]

Per Crossramwedge -

 

"The school is a private school and in fact is heavily backed and supported by the CO. It is located on the CO's property."

 

Since the CO is a church, to me this sounds like it is the church's school. Very rarely will you have a church let an entirely different private organization set up a school on church property, and then "heavily back and support" it.

[Pack212Scouter]

Very true. It is a wonderful thing when a CO takes a pack on as their own. I believe someone even post on here that their CO 100% funds their Scouting program. But unfortunatly that only happens when the CO's leadership has a true understanding of and love for Scouting. What is more common is that the Scouting program is more of a "red headed stepchild." Something that is tolerated, even appreciated at times, but never truely embraced as a CO program. Often this leads to Scouting being the first potential hit when facility/program conflicts arrive at the CO.

[Pack378]

first of all..... you should have a parents meeting and explain to the parents on what is going on. Explain to them if they do not step up, the pack could loose its charter. There is a time and a place for parents to step up and the time is now! You say you have 60 boys, thats roughly 25-50 family's, thats 50-100 parents. To me that breaks down to at least 10 leaders. Also, change the day the meetings are held, through a loop in the babysitting, the REAL scouts will still come. You might loose half of your boys but a small STRONG unit is better than a LARGE week unit. As you know a unit is all about the leaders, not babysitters!

[CalicoPenn]

After reading both of Crossram's posts, I get a different vibe from this.

 

It sounds as if the CO may have determined that the school is a better fit as a sponsor of the Pack than the Church is - and just wants to move the Charter from the Church to its School, and the new DE isn't adept at getting the task done without causing unneeded angst among the Unit Leaders.

 

My suggestion - contact the COR directly - not through the Troop, not through the Council - and just ask.

 

And let us know how it goes.

 

Calico

[Crossramwedge]

The school is supported by 3 different church's and each church houses a portion of the school on it's "Campus". Our CO happens to have the elementary part of the school on its property and is really the "head" Church of the Group. The principle and several of the teachers come from our church.

 

The Scout program is considered a "ministry" of the church and because it is considered that we also have to follow certian "rules" that pertains to "Church Ministries". The LDS have certian rules that they follow and in this particulair instance so do we. Particularily when it comes to asking for help. For instance, if a person is already involved in another "ministry" in the church we are not allowed to actively "recruit" that same person for a Scout Leader/helper. Do not want to over load them. Recruiting a non-member of the church is also frowned upon even though we have a couple of them that would help. This does not mean that if a person already has a "position" in a ministry of the church they can not help the Scouts. If they want they can, we just can not actively recruit them

 

The Cub CC is up to speed on this and has talked to the COR. The CC is trying to set up a meeting with our CO. The UC goes to our church and is a friend of mine. I will call the UC and see what the UC knows.

 

THe "angst" happened when nobody in the Pack knew what was happening and found out by accident. The CO should have contacted the CC and let them know what they where thinking before contacting the DE and started this procedure. At least that is my opinion.

 

I agree with what Pack 378 said. I have thought that myself. Changing the day we meet is a good ideas and just as Pack 378 said the boys and parents who want to be there will be and the ones who do not will fall away.

[Vicki]

Ah, LDS. That's a whole different ball game, CRW. Any thoughts I have would be based on the overall BSA program, not the LDS BSA program. LDS has added a different layer of structure - knowing you are LDS explains why you expect support from your CO, why leadership may be an issue (no judgement there, you alluded to it in your post, too), and why your CO is so "in control." That's a very important detail. Sounds to me like you're not going to lose your pack, you're just part of an organizational shuffle. As someone else said, I'd just call your next level up (or whoever in the church is responsible for facilities) and ask.

 

Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)