Can one activity count for two things?

[AZ Wingnut]

Help - I have been told different things by several people. We did elective 3A (Making a Recipe Holder). Can I also sign off on Achievement 5E (Making something useful)? Kind of like do one thing and get credit for two.

[Lisabob]

Hello and welcome to the forum. You might find you get more on-target responses if you try posting this in the "cub scouts" section. But in general, my answer to your question would be "no." Encourage the boys to stretch and do more, rather than to view the requirements as simply something to be checked off and filled in, and they'll get more from the program. If it is parents pushing you (and if you are the Den Leader), remind the parents that the program is first and foremost about doing things, not getting things (arrow points).

 

Hope this helps!

 

 

[FireKat]

I have seen many parents/scouts doing this type of thing. It bothes me when a parent encourages the doubling up. It happened during my son's painting MB class where a father was encouraging his son to think on where else he could use what he was doing. They came up with also counting his time as 'community service hours'. I had to bite my tongue so not to give my view on community service and what it means. To me it is to teach the kids of the great feeling hat you can get in helping out someone or the community to build lifelong good citizens.

As JFK said - ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.

My son never has a problem getting more than enough service hours, he is always volunteering to help whenever he can (us too). Serve as part of your duty and honor, not just for advancement and build good citizens who will continue to serve. Not people who look for loopholes and how to do the minium.

My 2 cents, Kat

[msnowman]

While you will find nothing in the book to disallow "double dipping" (except for a couple of very specific Webelos/Arrow of Light requirements), I agree with the above posters that most activities should only be counted once. That being said - since this is still Cub Scout level, and making the leap that it is not Webelos - the parents are still, ultimately, the final say. If Johnny's mom says he has done Ach 5E and Elective 3A you pretty much have to accept that.

 

Of course, mom/dad/guardian pencilwhipping or taking the easy way thru rank will make things tougher for their Scout once he hits Webelos and even tougher still when he hits Boy Scouts.

 

There are always exceptions - and room for exceptions. Big things like hikes give room for covering two or three different requirements at once (take a hike, outdoor outing w/ family, picnic. But small, crafty type projects? Nah, just count it once.

 

 

ETA - I just asked this question of a former Cub Scout Leader that I work with. Her response? Count it twice. So, no agreement, even among friends.

 

 

IMHO/YMMV

YiS

Michelle(This message has been edited by msnowman)

[Gold Winger]

As a former Cub Scout advancement guy, I'd say "No."

[John-in-KC]

My copy of Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures #33088 is elsewhere. Can anyone look this up?

 

Absent a hard look, Lisa's comment passes the common sense test.

[LCScouter]

I totally agree with the other posters. Cub Scouting is more about doing, rather than "getting the award."

 

One exception would be the Tiger Program. Participation is the key factor in the Tigers program, rather than accomplishing a certain task.

 

Go to a National Historic Site would be a "Go See It" and also another bead for visiting a national park. Two beads, one trip. But that would be the exception, rather than the rule.

 

Once they get beyond Tigers, stick to "do one requirement, get one requirement checked off."

[croushorn]

Better watch it - you're opening the door for accusations of 'holding boys back' and 'adding to the requirements'. This is where the literal reading will drive you nuts when trying to meet the intent of the requirements.

[Karen_216]

The only rank that you are not allowed to put multiple credits towards is webelos. This is the only place giving multiple credit is addressed in cub scouts and expressley not permitted.

The rest seems to be up to the leaders/parent.

Any other cub scout year it is allowed. I'm not saying to encourage it but it is allowed. you can give belt loop credits at the smae time giving credit towrds an achievement. Generally I don't give credits for both electives and achievemtns for the same item. Besides ,it's so easy to do something else.

[PACK15NISSAN]

I have to agree with the majority here. Although, as stated there are no direct instructions saying not to count things twice (except in some Webelos achievements) why have 2 different achievements or electives if you can do one thing and count it for both.

 

Obviously, this is highly opinionated, but if why have requirements 3A and 5E (in original example) if building a reciple holder would count twice. The child is only learning how to bend the rules and take short cuts, which by the way will prove to be a big disappointment in higher ranks. I didn't allow my son to get 2 for 1's and neither did most parents I knew and they all earned rank and several arrow points. There really is no need for it.

[croushorn]

Too bad that isn't the prevailing attitude on the Boy Scout level.

[meschen]

I was presented with a similar question related to the "other" cub scout awards. For the outdoor activity badge, a Bear is required to earn his Leave No Trace award, which requires a service project. Can that service project also be used to meet requirement 5 or 6 of the Outdoor Activity Awards?

[gcan]

We DO 'double dip' with certain things. When a project takes more than two cracks at it (say clean up a memorial one day, plant flowers and arrange flags and markers the next day), we let it count for two things. Or if there are two components to something- a conservation project, followed by a nature hike or campfire or whatever.

 

In your case, Wingnut, I personally wouldn't count it for both requirements. But, say you built it, then took another whole meeting to do some fancy decorating, then you could use the artwork component for something else.

 

JMHO!

[Stosh]

As a former Cub advancement chairman and Webelos DL, I never allowed double dipping. Why consolidate the fun to one activity when one could have twice the fun doing two things.

 

I worked my program that I actually offered all the pin requirements twice so that the boys that missed it the first time could catch it the second time around. It doesn't take a whole lot of creativity to tweak the activity to give it a fresh look and the boy have just as much fun doing it a second time.

 

If it's fun rather than "advancement" the boys really don't mind the process. I found the problem was more with the parents than with the boys. As a DL of an adult led program, I just pulled rank and that ended the discussion. As a SM in a boy-led program it's easier to stick with the expressed requirements, there's a lot less chance for double dipping.

 

If Mom really liked the recipe holder, how about we make a popcicle stick trivet to go with it? That way mom gets two neat things and when mom's happy, everyone's happy.

 

Stosh

 

(This message has been edited by jblake47)