Webelos left behind

[LongHaul]

Discussion came up at our last District Operations Meeting; What do you do with a Webelos II that does not want to try and achieve his AOL and at crossover time does not qualify to crossover? According to the application they must be 11 or have graduated 5th Grade, or be at least 10 and have earned the AOL. DO you crossover the none AOL scout and hold the app till he graduates in June? or do you make him hang around the Pack till June?

LongHaul

[Gold Winger]

Does he want to become a Boy Scout? If not, it really doesn't matter.

 

If he does want to become a Boy Scout, he has two options: hang around with the Pack until he completes the fifth grade or hang around at home until he completes the fifth grade. Okay, or turns 11.

 

Whther he should be allowed to "cross" with the other boys is a difficult one. Will the other boys say, "hey! He didn't do squat and still gets the ceremony!" or "Hey! He's not a Boy Scout yet, get out of here!"

 

Nah, I'd let him sit it out. It might be percieved as mean but it might do him some good to see what he's missed. Maybe he'll decide to put the extra months to use to finish his AOL.

 

 

[RememberSchiff]

This is an opportunity to show that there are many paths to Scouting and that you can join at anytime. Also, advancement is just one method to achieve the aims of Scouting. (The "aims" are character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness. Advancement is just one method used to achieve these aims. The other methods are Ideals, Patrols (a.k.a patrol method), Outdoor Programs, Personal Growth, Leadership Development, and Uniform)

 

At the crossover ceremony, I would recognize the non-AOL scout's accomplishments, respect his decision, and let him know he can join scouting anytime. They are all making a next step in their life, they are just going in different directions.

 

Maybe say something like

We honor the accomplishments that you have made on journey along the Cub Scout trail and we ask that you too look back and remember those accomplishments and your many friends as well. Now you have reached the end of the Cub Scout trail, where two new trails begin. Some of you will now take the trail (bridge) to Boy Scouts and some will take another trail. These trails will cross again and again. You can crossover to the scouting trail at any time, at any age. See you on the trail.

 

Those who earned AOL, "crossover" to meet Scouts/Scout Leaders of the troop they will be joining. Now if the Non-AOL scout wishes to join Boy Scouts let him walk a different symbolic trail over to the Boy Scouts. If he does not, he justs remains seated and watches as his friends head down the scouting trail.

 

Talk to the Scoutmaster and see if he can attend their meetings until he can "officially" join at 11 or graduates 5th grade in 4 or 5 months. Hopefully, this troop is now making plans for summer camp. I think he will lose interest in scouting, if he is "held back" in Cub Scouts. Would you place him in a Web I den?

 

All new Boy Scouts have to complete the "Scout Badge" which is mostly a repeat of AOL requirements anyway. He will have to work a little harder to complete Scout Badge than his fellow scouts who earned their AOL and hopefully that will make an impression.

 

Good Scouting

 

 

[scoutldr]

He remains registered in the Pack until such time he is eligible to register with a troop. It's not fair to allow him to be a Boy Scout if he's not interested in doing the work necessary to get there. He's made his choice, now there are consequences.

[Trevorum]

"I'd let him sit it out. It might be percieved as mean but it might do him some good to see what he's missed."

 

I agree with GW. Tough love.

[Lisabob]

I'd say it depends on some other background factors, including the relationship between pack and troop, the pack's structure, and why the boy didn't earn AoL to start with.

 

If there's a strong relationship between the pack and troop, this opens up all kinds of windows. For example, if the troop has den chiefs operating in the pack, maybe this boy can be an assistant to one of the best den chiefs for a couple of months. It is a way to keep him active in scouting, helps him build a connection with at least one older youth in the troop, and can give him motivation to be part of the troop once he's eligible.

 

Why didn't the boy(s) earn AoL? Is it because they just joined scouting as Webelos IIs and didn't have time? In that case, maybe they would benefit from a couple more months as cubs, if it can be arranged. Scouting is still new to them so they aren't as likely to be bored by sticking with the cub program a short while longer. Is it because they have special needs and can't progress as quickly as other boys? Again, maybe sticking with cubs a bit longer is beneficial. Is it because they just weren't that interested in the award? In that case, you have to determine whether they are the type who just found cubbing to be too constrained (I've known boys who disliked cubs, esp. toward the end, but loved boy scouts) and would thrive in a boy scout environment, or whether they really aren't so interested in becoming boy scouts. Or maybe they love doing all the cool stuff scouts of all ranks do, but aren't motivated by rank advancement. Your solution should vary, depending on why they aren't AoL yet.

 

In terms of pack structure - Does the pack have another webelos den? I've seen packs take boys who are Webelos IIs but not eligible to join the troop yet and move then into the Webelos I den for a couple of months. Some of those boys do go on to finish their AOL and just needed the extra time and/or incentive to do so, which works out nicely for all concerned. And the difference between 4th and 5th graders isn't usually that large, but if the older boy needs (and can handle) a little "extra" then he can also assist the Webelos I boys in learning material he may have already done.

 

If the pack doesn't have another den for the boy(s) to go to and the webelos II leader isn't planning to stick around after cross-over, then it is tougher. Asking a 5th grader to go hang out with the bear or wolf den is almost a punishment and won't fly well. Telling him to take a 2-3 month "break" from scouting is likely to result in losing the boy from the program altogether, as he will likely find other things to get involved in during the meantime, and even if he doesn't, he is then in a position to join the troop as a brand new scout just before shipping off to summer camp - not the easiest transition to make for boys or their parents.

 

In that case I have seen troops invite the boy to come along on some of their outings and meetings as a guest (not a member). The troop may decide that the boy can't do everything, and it would have to be clearly indicated that anything the boy does prior to actually joining doesn't "count" toward rank. But as we're only talking about a matter of 2-3 months in most cases, this might work as an interim measure. This assumes the boy plans to join the troop once he is eligible, of course.

 

There's also the maturity level of the boy, his interest in scouts, and his parents' interest in keeping him in the program to consider. Some boys could handle joining the troop a little later, going to summer camp with no prior acquaintance with the troop, and some could not. Some parents will find creative ways to keep their sons interested in scouting even during a short hiatus, others will not.

 

Hope this helps somewhat, and I'm interested in others' thoughts too. Around here, most boys who don't cross over with their dens drop out of scouting. As a district membership person, I'd really like to find some creative ways to reduce the likelihood of that outcome.

[infoscouter]

Is this Scout really "left behind"? or is he following one of the principles of BSA advancement as a self-paced exercise, rather than a lock-step march through the ranks?

 

After five years of leadership, I think a Webelos leader often gets focused on the end of their personal journey, rather than the best interests of the individual Scouts in the den. I can't blame them - it can be a long slog. Personally, I turned my first den over to another leader after year four because the pack needed an assistant cubmaster, but privately I was relieved.

 

The structure of the Webelos program, where all the kids work on the activity badges at the same time, also contributes to this mindset. You get focused on AoL and cross over and everybody getting done. It becomes easy to overlook the individual needs of the Scouts.

 

The pack leadership should of course find a place for this Scout in the den with the fourth graders. Webelos dens don't have to be all one grade. He can continue as a Cub Scout, and when he's ready the pack and troop should have a cross-over ceremony, just as they did for the other fifth grade Scouts.

[evmori]

Background makes no difference. If this Webelos has decided not to try to earn his AOL, that is his decision. And as has been posted, decisions have consequences. If he doesn't qualify to be a Boy Scout, he has to wait. That's the choice he has made regardless of the reason. And those are the consequence's of the decision he has made. A life lesson has been learned.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[mdutch]

I want to reiterate infoscouters mention that if he does not cross over with the rest of his den, a cross-over ceremony should be held in the spring, if he decides to join a troop at that point. Any cub scout joining boy scouts, regardless of whether or not they earned the AOL, should be given a cross-over ceremony.

[Stosh]

I have to agree with meamemg. No where does it say one has to be AOL in order to cross over. They are crossing over from Cubs to Scouts. If the boys is a registered Cub and is doing a $1 transfer over to Scouts, he's entitled to a cross over ceremony.

 

Maybe we as adults convey too much importance on AOL that we forget what the Cubbing program is all about, just like we convey the importance that Eagle is the end-all for Boy Scouting.

 

If any negative dynamic is involved in the transition program between Webelos and Scouting it may turn the boy off from continuing his scouting career. This transition is difficult enough without adults doing a dump job of "tough love" on a kid.

 

I would think that scout troops would be doing back bends and hand stands to get these kids to join up with their troop. If not, that Cub needs to find a different troop. "A Scout is ... Helpful, Friendly, Kind, ..."

 

How "big" and how "old" does the little old lady have to be before a scout helping her across the street gets credit for his good turn for the day? People are more important than rules.

 

Stosh

 

[evmori]

No where does it say one has to be AOL in order to cross over. They are crossing over from Cubs to Scouts. If the boys is a registered Cub and is doing a $1 transfer over to Scouts, he's entitled to a cross over ceremony.

 

I don't think anyone is saying he has to earn his AOL to crossover. The problem is if he doesn't he must wait until he ages out of Cub Scouts to crossover. He is entitled to a ceremony when he crosses over.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Eagledad]

>>If he doesn't qualify to be a Boy Scout, he has to wait. That's the choice he has made regardless of the reason. And those are the consequence's of the decision he has made. A life lesson has been learned.

[RememberSchiff]

See things from the boy's point of view. BP

 

The scout who did not earn his AOL, sees his patrol leaving for Boy Scouts without him just because he did not earn a patch. Rejection is pretty tough at that age. Think of the boy, change the rules, and let him enter a Boy Scout troop together at the same time with his buddies.

 

From my Webelos Den Leader experience, this "tough love" policy has always been applied in my unit and always with the same result. Webs that did not earn their AOL and did not crossover at the same time, did not join Boy Scouts. Not one.

[evmori]

If the rules are to be changed it must come from National. A unit doesn't have the authority to change these rules.

 

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Lisabob]

While not wanting to get too far into the debate about whether or not a good idea to formally join the troop without meeting the criteria, I will say that I know of specific cases in which our council approved early cross-overs for boys who did not yet have their AoL and who were not either 11 or finished with 5th grade. Additionally, we did some looking into a situation of a boy who was 9, AoL, and part-way through his 5th grade year (he had skipped a couple grades). It appeared that our council would likely have granted him a waiver to join the troop also, despite not meeting the age/grade criteria at that point in time. We ended up not needing to pursue the matter so I can't be sure. However, from experience it seems as though national does not need to be involved in all cases.

 

And I do think circumstances matter; for example, boys who join cub scouts in October of their 5th grade year simply do not have time to earn AoL. We can do what will be perceived as "punishment" for their "error" of joining so late, or we can be more welcoming of them, make it work somehow, and keep them in scouting. This happens every year for most packs (though in fairly small numbers most of the time) and I'd hate to see us turn boys away from the program if it could be helped.