Asst. CM problems

[evmori]

Taking ownership of a Pack is not a bad thing, Ekmiranda, unless it ends up becoming your way or no way. I have always found that taking ownership of something makes it more important & I want to do a better job.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Lisabob]

Did you come here searching for input and opinions, or for validation of what you already knew you wanted to do? In the latter case, I dare say you'll find it regardless. But in the former case, if you wanted people's perspectives (which is what I thought you were asking for when you/your wife started this thread) then you got them, and telling people to hold their tongue is a little bit unrealistic. Some feedback may not be to your liking, but it is still a gift.

 

About the situation - my understanding is that the CO, not you, is ultimately in charge of "firing" volunteers. However, most CO's are not terribly well acquainted with their units and would prefer that the unit leaders just deal with the situation themselves. Since I recall there being other issues with other volunteers in the past, let me ask this though - if you forcibly remove this person from his position, will other potential leaders get the message that they'd better not bother volunteering because you'll just oust them too? Be wary of alienating your future helpers, or you'll have a fait accompli - you'll have to run the pack, because no one else will help, and then since no one else will help, you'll feel that others aren't showing the level of dedication that you and your wife show, thus necessitating your grip upon pack leadership.

[Ekmiranda]

I agree and that is all I am trying to say. It is not even so much as an ownership as pride in having a good pack as apose to a great pack. But as in all things there is a fine line that always needs to be watched. We make statements of ownership in all that we do. My car who owns it the bank really does

My house the bank. These are all phrases that are made each day and not to be take to heart.

[Jeffrey H]

Here's my input for what it is worth...

 

I'm an Asst. CM for my Pack. My primary role in this position is to support the Cubmaster and take on duties he may need delegate to me. The Cubmaster is the top program officer for the Pack and I never do anything "significant" without consulting with him first.

 

Your ACM needs to be reminded of these recommended duties issued by the National BSA office. The first listed responsibility for the ACM is to "Help the Cubmaster as needed. Be ready to fill in for the Cubmaster, if necessary."

 

 

Responsibilities: An assistant Cubmaster's responsibilities (as designated by the Cubmaster) are to

 

Help the Cubmaster as needed. Be ready to fill in for the Cubmaster, if necessary.

Complete Cubmaster Fast Start Training and position-specific Basic Leader Training. Attend monthly roundtables.

Participate in pack meetings.

Supervise den chiefs and see that they are trained.

Conduct the monthly den chief planning meeting for all den leaders, assistant den leaders, and den chiefs to plan and coordinate weekly den meetings and pack meeting participation.

Work with neighborhood troops that supply den chiefs and into which Webelos Scouts may graduate.

Help inform pack leaders of training opportunities and arrange for them to attend training sessions.

Work with the pack committee to develop and promote an ongoing plan for recruiting new boys.

Work with the Cubmaster and pack committee on pack reregistration.

Help with pack activities, such as dinners, derbies, bike safety workshops, service projects, etc.

Work with the pack committee on outings to see that the pack and dens qualify for the National Summertime Pack Award.

Participate in the annual pack program planning conference and pack leaders' meetings.

Promote the religious emblems program.

Support the policies of the BSA.

 

[scoutldr]

Regarding Pack organization, my information, like me, is old. I stand corrected. I think Jeffrey has it...

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, let's not get too hung up on the formalities of pack organization, eh?

 

Reality is all over the place. Da most common for small to midsized packs is all the folks who actually do work gettin' together and deciding on things collaboratively, no matter what their title happens to be. Hopefully CM plays lead in program and CC plays lead in administration, but a lot depends on personalities. Bigger packs often have a strong organizer/personality CM.

 

Least dat's the way I remember it. I try not to work with packs too much. Not my game. But I do recommend against the husband/wife thing in the formal roles.

 

Issue sounds like someone who doesn't want to collaborate and just wants to take charge. That can be a resource if put in da right position in the right kind of unit, or a pain in the a** if unchecked.

 

Moral for Mr. Ekmiranda is to use folks in a position for a bit before yeh recommend them for a title .

 

Beavah

 

[Ekmiranda]

Beavah,

 

Just for clarifacation ( This is the CM responding )

Thanks for the check. I understand the issues and understand the husband and wife issies also. The pack had these issues before I came on board. Both my wife and I have a very close relationship with the UC and COR and this team was blessed by the COR and the organization itself. The UC came on board afterwards. We are a couple that is able to seperate the Husband / Wife issues and when Scouting is concerned we talk as CC and CM. We find that we get more accomplished that way. And only one of us is on the Account which needs a double signiture on the checks.

 

With all due respect Beavah I did work with the ACM for about a month or so as an active parent and all things seemed OK. Cystal balls are hard to come by in this day and age . LOL

 

My pack is of a medium size with 40 boys and adout 13 total leaders in all. Are leader/comm. meetings size about 7-10 people a month.

 

Issue sounds like someone who doesn't want to collaborate and just wants to take charge. That can be a resource if put in da right position in the right kind of unit, or a pain in the a** if unchecked.

 

You comment is true; in talking to a Leader last night I found out that the ACM wants the CM position and also is power hungry. He stated to her that He will not except another position. he will either leave or take the CM position or stay where he is regardless of what he is told.

 

I am in no way worried about the status of my CM position or the fact of what was said. Just want to let you know that you pinned the tail on the donkey. LOL

 

P.S. CC spoke with the UC and meeting is being set up between all parties (CC, CM, ACM, UC, COR )

 

EKM

 

[SSScout]

Poor Cub Scout with a dad like that.

Poor example for the boys. Parents in conflict about who's in charge.

 

(folks in flowing blue and gold robes come rushing on stage)

**clashing music**

 

"NOBODY EXPECTS THE SCOUTER INQUISITION!!"

 

(push old lady into the comfy chair) etc. etc.

[Jeffrey H]

A Scout Leader who is "hungry for power" has no business as a Scout Leader in any role.

 

 

[Ekmiranda]

Trust me I know that

Thats why I am trying to have him removed

and the only one who can do that is the COR or DE

 

[Beavah]

CC spoke with the UC and meeting is being set up between all parties (CC, CM, ACM, UC, COR )

 

Yah, OK. This can be good edumication for others who deal with these kinds of things.

 

What is the outcome of the meeting?

 

The CC and COR in particular should not go into this kind of meetin' without the outcome being more or less determined in advance. That can be a tree, like "if he acknowledges and apologizes, probation for a period of time; if he doesn't acknowledge the issues or apologize, move to a support role" like ordinary parent volunteer or assistant manager of paperwork. Your UC might also want to be ready with "there may be other cub packs in the area that would be a better fit for you."

 

You're only settin' yourself up for trouble if yeh go into this kind of thing with the only goal being "we want to express our concern." That can put yeh down in the mud where you all start quibbling about the merits of each one of his actions. With that many people involved, he's goin' to feel ganged up on in any event. Keep it simple, respectful, serious, to the point. Listen to him, let him vent, but yeh have to take it to a conclusion. And that should be a conclusion yeh all are on board with before you enter the room. Not to say you're locked in if some creative solution pops up, but that you all are on board with the vision of what a successful outcome is, and you're determined to get there.

 

Otherwise he'll just play you against each other and try to manipulate the outcome for himself, eh? Just human nature.

 

That means you and Mrs. Ekmiranda and da COR have to get on the same page before the meetin'.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[evmori]

Trust me I know that

Thats why I am trying to have him removed

and the only one who can do that is the COR or DE

 

Call him up. Tell him he is out & you will be mailing him a check for his registration.

 

Call your DE & tell him to please remove him from your roster as he is no longer a member of your Pack and you have returned his registration fee.

 

Done.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[kb6jra]

Wow, there's drama everywhere nowadays. LOL, EKmiranda, I had similar issues with den leaders in my Pack some years ago. I had similar issues with an ASM just a few months ago. Very ugly business and I have to say I agree with what Beavah has posted for you, put on a united front before you have your meeting, get your strategy straight and all that.

 

Regarding the husband/wife, cm/cc issue. I have to agree with the others that you should really consider making a change there. You may both be very committed to the success of the Pack, but you need to share power with others at least to negate the illusion of impropriety and nepitism. I've never seen this to work well for a long period of time. This arrangement leads to a lot of unnecessary drama for the Pack and the husband/wife team. Share the workload, you'll both be happy you did.

 

The good news is that you two have a common activity that, if you let it, will keep you busy 8 days a week. In our area we have many great husband/wife teams that have some great adventures with each other.

 

Good Luck, let us know how it pans out.

 

 

 

[Ekmiranda]

Well folks we have an outcome.

I will try my best to explain. The CC called a committee meeting and I was also there as our by-laws allow. The topic was what to do with the ACM.The meeting went on for about 1 1/2 hours the outcome was to make the recamendation to the COR to remove him.

The CC called and told the COR what the out come was and he would take over from there. But he and the UC wanted to have a meeting with the CC and CM to all be on the same page.

At this meeting we meaning the CC and CM found out that this was the straw that broke the camels back. There have been 2 formal complaints made by parents to district council and numerous other complaints that were not formally made about this man. He has gone to the scout shop in our area and made demands and gotten loud with the sales people. There have been other things which the COR felt it was not important for him to disclose for the boy and parents sake. So he is no longer a registered leader in the pack or area. Now we are in the process of doing damage control as he is still a parent and is spreading rumors to leaders and throughtout the pack. This person is a minipulative spightful person and I have heard will stop at nothing to take over the pack. His Name is RED FLAGGED and they know full well all about him.

I want to thank all of you for your continueing input and advice you are all great people and Scouters thanks again. On another note my wife and I have had concerns about what all of you have said about H/W team as CC & CM and have spoken with our UC and COR. They seem to feel that we are doing a great job and have been told that if one of us were to try and step down the COR would not accept our resignation. Go Figure?We were told by them both that they are behind us 100%

 

Thanks again for all you have done

YIS EKMiranda

[evmori]

Thanks for the update! Great to here everything worked out.