Electives multiple times

[Den 14 Dad]

I have recieved conflicting information reference doing and getting credit for electives multiple times, and getting multiple credit at the WOLF level.

 

As an example I will use ELECTIVE 9 "Let's Have A Party":

 

If the Wolf Scout does 9a "Help with a home or den party" to help plan and execute his birthday party on one occasion and then helps plan and execute a Christmas Party on another occasion. Is the Wolf Scout elegible for credit for both or just one per customer?

 

TIA for any guidance

[ScoutNut]

Per the Cub Scout Motto - Do Your Best! You are talking about two separate activities here right?

 

Get a grip here folks. We are talking about CUB SCOUTS!!! He is not being sworn into the job of President! Two separate activities - count as 2 separate Electives.

 

End of story - Don't punish the boys for the adults who don't know what they are doing!

[LongHaul]

>>End of story - Don't punish the boys for the adults who don't know what they are doing!<<

       I agree two separate parties two separate electives. I'm confused by the last line. Are you saying that an adult is doing something wrong? Is it in accordance with the advancement program for Cub Scouts for an electives to be done twice?

 LongHaul

[Den 14 Dad]

No one is being punished. I am looking for clarification so that I will not be "an adult that doesn't know what I am doing". I don't know where that is coming from.

My question is put well in another way by LongHaul "Is it in accordance with the advancement program for Cub Scouts for an elective to be done twice?"

I have received conflicting information about this issue and was looking for clarification.

I have received the following possible answers:

 

Each elective may be done only once (source: somewhere online)

Each elective may be done multiple times within reason (source: recent Wolf Leader Specific Training)

Each elective may be done only once with the exception of 5g,h,i and 9b,c which may be done more than once (source: notes sheet of the wolf v2r14.xls spreadsheet)

The book is not clear on this either way that I can see. My gut instinct is telling me to go with the info put out through my District, at the Leader Specific Training, but I would like to find some documentation on the subject. Partof the reasonI want the documentation and am not simply going with the info put out by my particular district is that I want to provide it tothe creator of the "wolfv2r14.xls" spreadsheet so that that wonderful thing can be updated to allow multiple entries in all of the elective fields and not just those listed. This spreadsheet is used by leaders all around the country so I want to provide her with documentation forScouting in general rather than a rule that may have just beenapplied by my particularDistrict.

I hope this puts my issue in terms that are clearer.

Thanks

[John-in-KC]

Den14Dad,

 

Welcome to the Forums.

 

I do not have a copy of BSA Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures at hand right now, but will consult tonight... if someone else doesn't post from it earlier. Cub Advancement policy is part of the book.

 

From what I remember, electives can be done multiple times. Since we have slightly different advancement plans for Wolf and Bear (Wolf has specific achievements, Bear has a choice of achievements to rank, and then you can use the rest as electives), it's worth checking.

 

 

[LongHaul]

      When making a motion picture you hire someone to deal with continuity. You want to be sure that when you cut scenes the color of a tie or scarf does not change. Hair was down, now it's up, now it's down sort of thing. I wish BSA would hire a continuity person for their publications. In looking at the ACPP #33088 I could find no reference to this issue. In looking at a Bear Handbook I find no "specific" reference to this issue. I did however find a passage toward the bottom of page 180 which reads "However, note that unused parts of achievements that were used for the Bear badge may not be counted toward Arrow Points. These requirements now follow the same rules as elective requirements. Each one is a separate project." Read literally this could be interpreted to mean that each "requirement" for Achievement #3 could be seen as a separate project. (Provided Achievement #3 was not used in earning the Bear badge) Under Electives looking at #17 Repairs it states that "Each time you do this differently, it counts as a completed project" Does that mean this policy holds true for all electives or does the fact that it is specifically stated in Elective 17 indicate that it is intended for this Elective specifically? I'm sure glad we don't have this confusion in the Boy Scout Advancements.

 LongHaul

[Scouting Mom]

Per Cub Scout Leader Book, 2006 Printing, pg 20-6, Under the heading "Arrow Points" Second paragraph reads:

 

"Boys can do several Wolf and Bear electives more than once. In this way, boys can explore in more detail an area in which they may be especially interested. For example, a Wolf Cub Scout may make as many kites or model boats as he wishes (Wolf Elective 5); however this practice can be abused when families don't understand how the program works. The purpose of Cub Scout electives is to broaden a boy's horizons, not encourage him to earn a shirt full of Arrow Points. When a boy repeats an elective project, he should be given credit only when he has done a better job on the new project than on the previous project."

[Den 14 Dad]

Thanks Scout Mom. That is the answer and reference that I was looking for.

 

I apreciate all of the replies. It is obvious that this will be a great resourse for me.

[Wolf_Leader_120]

You are right to question this. I have asked it at every Pow-Wow I go to and always receive different answers. My Pack used PackMaster to record each den's advancement. The PackMaster software allows multiple entries for each elective, so I have used this as my answer of "yes". On a related note: I have noticed the free WolfTrax Excel spreadsheet only allows the entry to be made once, so I do not use WolfTrax for that reason.

 

That being said, my den does impose some restrictions. In the spirit geting the boys to try new things, I have set a den limit of "5" for any electives. I do not want a Scout earning 5 arrow points because they read a book a week as part of school. A few electives I even reduce further. For example, a Scout either knows how to tie their shoe laces or not. I am not going to give them credit every morning for tying their shoes.

 

Even with a limit of 5 per elective, the majority of my boys will earn at least 10 arrow points this year. Once they go below the belt line, do they really need more?

 

thanks

[Scoutfish]

In the Bear Cub Handbook ( for example)

 

 

ELECTIVE 6 : AIRCRAFT

 

Elective 6-d " Build and fly a model airplane.( You may use a kit.Every time you do this differently, it counts as a conpleted project.)"

 

So, the way I understand it, if you build the exact same model each time...it doesn't count, but build different models, it counts. I guess doing it differently expands your knowledge and horizons.

 

 

BUT....

 

Elective 6-g:

"Build and display a scale model airplane. You may use a kit or build it from scratch.

 

Again, as I understand it, this is not a flying model. You only get credit once even if you builf ten models.

 

So as for your question: Yes and no. Depends on what it is and what you did.

 

You can go on a pack family campout and earn a bunch of stuff under one big event. Camping, many many beltloops, and complete alot or requirements at the same time, without compromising the quality of the activity or award/badge/pin/beltloop.

 

I wouldn't watch my son fix a hotdog for a friend at Scout Sunday and try to write it up under community service, cooking, planning a meal, etc all at the same time.

 

I'd say that since you asked, you pretty much knew the answer, but was just looking for clarification under BSA's sometimes "double speak" rules!

[JoeBob]

"He should be given credit only when he has done a better job on the new project than on the previous project."

 

This is the standard we apply, and we mean a BETTER job.

There's one elective (I forget which) that you can fulfill by drawing a picture of the planets. For the second credit, your drawing needs to be detailed in color. The third time you use this elective, it should be in 3D. If you want to use this elective for a fourth credit, the planets better be free floating and rotating correctly around a sun...

[ScoutNut]

Keep in mind, that for this year at least, the one to make the determination of weather or not the Cub Scout has indeed - "done a better job on the new project than on the previous project", is the parent, NOT the den leader.

 

Currently, if the parent signs off on a Cub Scout elective (or requirement) as having been completed, it IS completed.