Need advice on dealing with new troop.

[johngordon]

I have really enjoyed reading these forums and am looking for sage advice regarding dealing with some issues. My son just moved up from Webelos this spring along with 5 other boys. The Troop that we joined meets at same location as the Pack so it was a natural move to join that Troop rather than explore other options. As an Eagle Scout with fairly extensive Boy Scout summer camp experience I was very enthusiastic about my son moving into Scouting.

 

Well, it has been a rather eye-opening experience. The Troop has a number of active parents which is a plus. Unfortunately, none of them apparently have a great deal of scouting training with the exception of the former Scoutmaster who has stepped down into ASM role for job demand reasons. The older boys wear uniform shirts only, no neckerchiefs, no pants and no real attention to shirt patches. The Troop is not functioning using the patrol method and meetings have been a bit disappointing with about half the time spent sitting around listening to announcements and half playing basketball or football.

 

On the plus side the troop is very active in terms of outdoor activities but at a recent campout the main activiites were "kill the kid with the ball" and similar games which completely freaked out the new scouts.

 

We live in an affluent suburb and I dont believe that financial concerns are the issue with the uniform. In speaking with the parents of the other new scouts we would like to change the Troop to better reflect Scouting as we knew it. We would like to keep our sons together as a new scout patrol. Our thought is that when the other kids see how a patrol can function then they may get with the program. We considered starting a new troop but I would rather fix what is broken with the current troop. The parents of the older scouts seem relatively open to the idea but I dont want to push so hard that things dont work out. The Troop Committee seems firmly to believe in mixed aged patrols but with the older boys showing little scout spirit I am concerned that this will be a disaster.

 

I will be the Cubmaster for the Pack and we will hopefully graduate 6-9 Webs each year so I cant really put too much energy into the Troop given my responsibilities to the pack. Help!

 

Thanks for any wisdom.

 

[Bob White]

John, I would agree with you that these boys, and noew your own son, are not experiencing a scouting program. They have fallen into the trap of doing things in a scout shirt and calling it scouting. This is almost always the case in a troop with untrained leaders.

 

My recommendation would be to sit down with the SM and the committee and ask them if they would committ themselves to attending training and moving quickly to a program that used scouting methods.

 

Iin the absence of that committment I would move my son to another troop that uses the scouting program. As a cubmaster I would make a relationship with the more scoutlike unit and be ready to direct the 2nd year Webelos to it. You have a responsibility to the leaders that have kept them in scouting through the Cub Scoout years, to give them them best chance for a quality Boy Scouting experience.

 

Best of Luck

Bob White

[sctmom]

Bob gives good advice. Ditto what he said. Finding another troop is easier than starting your own and well worth your time.

[johngordon]

Thanks for reply. Training does not happen until the Fall here. The question remains as to how to address this issue on Tuesday night with the troop committee. The new SM's son just joined last year so he has essentially very little scouting experience and when I raised these issues with him he said that he planned on just deferring to the leaders who have been with the troop for a couple of years and therein lies the problem!

 

I am not a political animal (which is why I chose avoid academia) and would really love to just go there and speak my mind but feel that this could ultimately prove counterproductive. Seems unusual to have parents who are so active but yet seemingly taking the Troop down the wrong path.

 

John

[evmori]

Ditto to Bob. I had a similar situation when my son't Webelos den was ready to move up to Boy Scouts. I talked with my DE & he hooked him up with a different Troop.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[sctmom]

Could you approach them with "Having some Scouting experience, I would like to offer some suggestions to make Scouting more fun for the boys"? Then bring up the patrol method, positive games for the boys to play, importance of uniforming. Volunteer to be the one to gather information about training in the fall and the one to get copies of the current BSA manuals so everyone can start reading up on how things are done.

 

Just a thought.

 

 

[scomman]

Uness you speak up the troop is in serious trouble. I have discovered that sometimes it is better to speak up than to remain quiet.

 

talk to the other parents and get some of them to go with you to the troop committee meeting and to support you in your discussion with the troop leadership.

 

Or invite your DE to attend the meeting and have him make the recommendations

[Bob White]

If you are thinking of taking in someone from the district level to help, I would recommend the district commissioner or someone from the commissioning staff. This type of situation is not within the responsibility area of a district executive.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[johngordon]

I have not considered having someone from District come to meeting as that may be either unhelpful or overkill in my mind. I wouldn't mind having another parent or two from the new scouts with me but trying to avoid an "us vs. them" scenario although this may play out in that fashion. Have offered to run a JLT course and bought the book and video and discussed this with newly elected SPL. Current adult leaders suggested doing this in the late summer but I would rather do it sooner than that if possible. SPL seemed mildly interested and suprised to find out a lot of information existed including this web site.

 

Oh well, I'll let you know what happens on Tuesday.

 

John

[slontwovvy]

Just a couple of questions.

 

How big is this troop?

 

Before I came to my troop, it only had 9 boys. As such, it never worked in "patrol method." The troop was the patrol. Even today, at outings, we do not have enough scouts from each patrol to keep each patrol in existence. We make up special camp patrols out of those in attendance.

 

Is there just a general apathy or is it a matter of not knowing how to do something?

 

I'll echo previous sentiments of training, training, training for the latter, and a large, energizing trip or activity for the former.

 

 

[johngordon]

Troop supposedly has 20-28 boys listed on roster but many are older and rarely attend. I really do not want younger kids to be tainted by older kids view of Scouting which is not based on traditional values.

 

John

[Twocubdad]

Unless you have a Troop committee full of control freaks, I've found that forgiveness is frequently easier to obtain than permission, as the saying goes.

 

Why don't you and one of the other new parents just jump in and start working with the new boys and get them off on the right foot. Organize classes for them at every Troop meeting to cover the Tenderfoot and Second Class requirements they need. Take them out on a weekend (with proper two-deep leadership, of course) and work on orienteering and other outdoor requirements. Set up a merit badge class for them to attend during Troop meetings -- and shucks, isn't it just too bad that most of the older boys already have that particular merit badge.

 

Of course your real goal here is to set a new standard for the new guys. Insist that when they are on an outing with you, they are in full uniform. Get them in the habit of coming to Troop meetings prepared to work (the rule in my old Troop was that you always came to Scouts with your Scout book, a notepad and pencil.) Soon, your new guys with start to catch up in rank with the older Scouts. Include those older guys in your activities -- but they have to meet your standards, too.

 

Hopefully, some of these good habits will rub off on the older Scouts. Eventually, when these younger boys are in leadership positions in a few years, they will be running a Troop to which you'll be proud to send your Webelos.

 

I'm not advocating that you do anything to undermine the Scoutmaster or Troop committee -- my whole point is to avoid a big confrontation over how the Troop is run. How you pull this off depends on attitude. Make it a positive thing. Set a good example of how to lead the Troop. I'll bet that within a year, the committee and SM will come around to the benefit of doing things by the book.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[johngordon]

Well, we had our committee meeting and I have mixed feelings about the outcome. We discussed the patrol issue and the fact that the older scouts were not showing as much scout spirit as we would like. The other members of the committee are very resistant to the idea of keeping the younger scouts together in a patrol. I discussed the issue of having new scouts next March entering and dealing with the same issues but mainly got a we'll cross that bridge when we come to it answer. Thhey believe that if we put the older boys together then they will not interact with the younger scouts and continue to use bad language. I countered with the fact that they were currently not interacting with the younger scouts and using bad language.

 

Regarding the lack of proper uniform they said well in the past the boys rarely even wore the shirt so we are doing much better.

 

I am not sure that the situation can be fixed. It would be difficult to move to another troop given that this one meets in the community center for the neighborhood but paerhaps this may be the only solution. In regards to training the current SM would like to participate in leader training but hasnt yet.

 

My wife thinks that I am becoming obsessed with these issues. However, I look back upon scouting as one of the most formative aspects of my adolescence. As a physician I put the ideals of scouting to use EVERY day and I really want my son to have that same opportunity. In a country where CEOs lie to us all and even Martha Stewart is cheating, Scouting represents the best in us as Americans and citizens of the world.

 

I'll keep you posted.

 

John

[sctmom]

John, Tell your wife that being obsessive seems to be a common trait among Scouters.

 

Stay focused on what is best for the boys and hold your course. Continue to get advice from the experienced Scouters on this board and get local contacts in the District and Council.

 

I think TwoCubDad has some good advice also about "just do it". Somebody has to start setting the example.

 

Good Luck.

[ozemu]

If you don't make headway with the current Troop then you will have to travel. It is worth doing so for accessing a troop that fits your ideal. It is very important - we are all different and the local Troop may just not 'fit'.

 

I have just had three refugees from another Troop join us and they travel about 70km in the round trip. It's so far that the parents stay simply because they wouldn't make it home again anyway.