TigerLisa Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 I'm new to the forums, so forgive me if this bizarre issue has been addressed before (I did try to search). We have a parent in our den who at least twice now has shown up to meetings reeking of alcohol. It's undeniable that's what it is, both from the odor and on the first occasion what I would call odd behavior (for him). I'm not the only one who has noticed it, but I'm probably the one who needs to do something about it. I'm his son's den leader. The first time I noticed it was at a Pack meeting and then yesterday at our den mtg. On both occasions, he was the only parent there with his son and two daughters, so I know he was driving them home. I have no idea how to handle this situation or what (if any) the BSA rules are in this regard. He isn't consuming alcohol at our functions (that I know of), but he definitely is beforehand. I'd appreciate any advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy ona cliff Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Hey and welcome. I have heard of some diabetic conditions that can mimic the consumption of alcohol, which makes it difficult to accuse a parent of inappropriate behavior. I remember that back in the day when my son was a Tiger I was usually blissfully ignorant, but just a few years ago we had a scout dad that some noted had the characteristics of one who needed a couple of beers to get his son to the meeting. Although we unfortunately did not address the issue of driving, we did have troop leader with the guts to point out to the guy that it was not appropriate to hang around the troop meeting reeking of beer, and so the guy stayed in the parking lot. As a Tiger Den I suppose that one of your meetings could be a field trip to the local law enforcement office on the topic of public safety and parents could participate in a breathalyzer test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotsplice1970 Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Tiger Lisa, I am sorry that you are having this problem. If you are the Tiger Leader, and he is comming to your meeting as the Adult Partner, BSA policy strictly enforces NO alcohol or drugs allowed in the program. Even though he is not drinking at your meeting, he is under the influence while participating. You need to contact your Cub Master and advise him/her of the situation. He/she should in turn, notify the Committee Chair. They should personally meet with this adult and remind him of the BSA Policy of No drugs or alcohol, and the fact that they stand firm on this rule. Most of the time, if handled properly, the adult will have no problem and comply with the rules. If he shows up to another meeting in this condition, to protect yourself, you need to politely ask him and his son to leave. As a Registered BSA Leader, should anything happen to a child, (He stumbles and falls on a child), you would not be protected by the BSA insurance, and could be at risk of law actions from the parents of the injured child. Also, you have the support of your District Executives. These are the "Paid Boy Scouts" who are trained to deal with situatons of this nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infoscouter Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Unless you're an attorney or an insurance professional, please don't use the "won't be covered by insurance" hoax. This kind of situation is just what insurance is for! Liability insurance can cover us for another's lack of judgement or ignorance. Now this just may be a dad that gets off shift at 4:00 and has a couple drinks. Lots of guys do. He doesn't even know that BSA has a no alcohol policy, much less that he's sort of violating it. Heck, he's been in the program all of what - four, six weeks at this point. So if he's drinking, he needs to be told about the BSA policies. The suggestion to bump this up the line to the Cubmaster and Committee Chair is a good one. And as someone has said there *are* medical conditions that can mimic the smell of alcohol on someone's breath, so they may need to be delicate when approaching the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerLisa Posted October 24, 2007 Author Share Posted October 24, 2007 I'm aware of the diabetic condition that can mimic somewhat drunken behavior and odor -- I honestly do not think this guy has uncontrolled diabetes, although I'm not a doctor and can't rule it out 100%. It just makes me extremely nervous. He's drinking before the meeting -- quite a bit from the smell of it -- and then driving his kids around afterwards. I have little to no confidence that our Cubmaster will do anything about it, and our Committee Chair has no clue what she's doing. She basically just let them put her down for that title without understanding the extent of the position. But that's a rant for another time. I will bring it up at our next committee meeting and maybe even casually ask the wife if he's diabetic or something. Thank you everyone for your responses. I'm relieved at least to know it's not a cut and dried situation that I am completely bungling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NealOnWheels Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 This needs to be addressed immediately. Regardless whether or not BSA policy was violated he may be endangering his children if he is driving them to and from the meeting under the influence. Making someone in this condition wait in the parking lot is not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot_foot_eagle Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 If you feel a parent is impaired and has been driving (or will be driving) you should call local law enforcement and let them make the determination. If there is an underlying medical condition, the partent may well be impaired by that, even if they aren't under the influence of alcohol. Endangering a child or children like this is not too different from child abuse and should be reported to the appropriate agencies and scout hierarchy just like a child had evience of physical abuse. I don't think it's your responsibility to confront the parent directly if you don't want to. You're the only one who can determine if that's appropriate. I do feel that the situation is clear-cut enough to require action on your part, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-in-KC Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Welcome again! There are two challenges running here. The first is the health and safety of the child. There are two ways to approach this: - First is to contact, through your CM/CC, your friendly Unit Commissioner. I'm willing to bet hard cash there is a law enforcement professional who is also a Scouter. He might be willing to help you have a "friendly" conversation, and explain the no-alcohol rule of Scouting. - The more direct way is simply to contact local law enforcement. I'd coordinate this with your CM, CC and Chartered Organization Representative, so they know what's going on. Share your concerns and where/when you meet. You've got a name and a vehicle license, so that will help law enforcement. The second challenge is keeping the young man in Cubbing. Is Mom in the situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerLisa Posted October 24, 2007 Author Share Posted October 24, 2007 Yes, Mom is involved too. Typically she will bring the boy to the den meetings and dad will arrive part-way through so that she can leave for work and he can drive the kids home. At Pack meetings, it's almost always just dad since mom works nights. Dad is actually a Life Scout himself. I'm going to bring this up at our next committee meeting. I'm pretty sure there are some law enforcement dads just in our den. Maybe we can start there. If the CM or CC isn't comfortable addressing it, I'll go to our district exec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicki Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Bringing it up at your next committee meeting is going to make it very public, very fast. Bringing more people into it is just going to give you more people that know about it and you still won't have anyone that will take responsibility for actually talking to the guy. My personal opinion is the fewer people that know the better, with the understanding that at some point, somebody is going to have to talk to the guy. Vicki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavah Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Yah, this is not a topic for a pack committee meeting. If, as you say, he just smells of alcohol and might be a bit "buzzed" by a couple of drinks after work, then this ain't federal case type stuff IMO. You and another trusted male adult should pull dad aside and let him know the no alcohol policy. Give him a chance to fix it. If he does, great, no problem, life is good. If not, I think I'd talk to mom next. Give her a chance to fix it. If she does, great, no problem, life is good. Only if this just kept going or gettin' worse would it move into the neglect suspicion/reporting kind of thing in my personal opinion. Only if yeh really thought the man was incapable of driving safely would I tell him, no, you're calling mom and not letting him drive. Only if he became belligerent and insisted in such a circumstance would I call da cops on the DUI rap. Yeh gotta remember, that can cause a heck of a lot of disruption to a family (out of cubs, loss of job of the major breadwinner, big expenses). You want to be sure, and you want to try a softer approach first and see where it gets you. Beavah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-in-KC Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Beavah has it better than I, keep it as low level as you can. If you are confident in having the friendly talk by yourself, do so. If you think the friendly talk would be aided with a Scouter who is also LE professional, go there. Elevate only as you must, it is hard for the kid to be a Cub if the main wage earner cannot bring home the bacon.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerLisa Posted October 24, 2007 Author Share Posted October 24, 2007 I'm absolutely in favor of the low-key approach. Believe me, I don't want this boy out of Scouting. He's a good kid, he really enjoys it, and if in fact there are issues at home, he needs Scouting even more. I realize I'm making some leaps here, but I'm sort of a worst-case scenario thinker. Plan for the worst, hope for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Winger Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 I'm not in favor of getting law enforcement involved. Maybe 30 years ago but not today. Once it is brought to the attention of a police officer he'll have to act or he could be in big hot water when something happens. First what is "reeking"? Some would say that if you have a glass of wine with dinner that you reek from alcohol. For others you'd have to bathed in vodka. What is odd behvior? A boy in my son's den had a father who was the original stuffed shirt. Stiff. Very stiff. At times he'd make very strange comments that were supposed to be jokes. He was attempting to get inot the spirit but lacked the ablility to delivery comedy. You could ask to meet with him away from the den meeting. "its been noticed that you seem to have a drink or two on den meeting nights." If he says, "yeah, I always have a martini after work" you could follow up with "I'd feel better if you didn't on meeting nights because . . ." I'll leave you to fill in the dots. I'm with those who say don't bring this up at the Committtee meeting. What might be a minor situation could get blown out of proportion. "Did you hear about Jim? Staggering drunk at den meetings!" I know that our society now says "if you have a suspiscion, run to the the authorities and make a fuss." Sadly, that's the way that lives get ruined. Guy has a couple drinks after work and suddenly the police are involved, he loses his job, his children are taken away, and finally he kills himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Its Me Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 He needs to be told directly and firmly to stop hitting the booze before he comes to Scout meetings. It would be best from you to say hey fella lay off the sauce before the den meetings. But if you feel uncomforatable as a Tiger den mom, get one of the other dads to relay the message. He knows the rules. If he is reeking of the stuff he likely has a drinking issue . And he knows he has an issue. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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