Irrate parent

[Pack212Scouter]

Wow...our Cubmaster just had a parent call him at home (not sure where he got the number since it''s unlisted and all Pack calls go to his cell) and wanted to transfer his son from another Pack to ours since our Webelo program is bigger and more active. Unfortunatly we had to inform him that our Patrols were full (already running 13 in a patrol). We''re reluctant to break these Patrols up now because they have been together for years and have been working on things together for this year since early summer. We added a couple at roundup until we were uncomfortable increasing the size any more, especially without experienced leader volunteers to creat a new Patrol. We offered to help him find another Pack, at which point, he started yelling at our CM for about 10 minutes. Half an hour later he called him back! Even though our CM offered to also get him in contact with the DE to help find an active Pack with room, he began deriding us about how we''re slighting a member of our Charter Organization and how he''s a registered leader and what we''re losing....This lasted about another 10 minutes before he hung up again.

 

I could hardly believe what I heard...Would any of you want this parent as a leader in YOUR Pack?

[eagle-pete]

Pack121Scouter

 

"Would any of you want this parent as a leader in YOUR Pack?"

 

Well, not at first glance, although I suspect there may be more to this story.

 

First of all, as a rule, I would not turn boys away from my pack if I were the Cubmaster. If it is a question of leadership and resources, well, new boys mean new parents who can be recruited as leaders, right?

 

I am also sort of confused about your terminology. You do know there aren''t any patrols in Cub Scouting, right? I am going to assume you are referring to dens. If your dens currently have 13 cubs in each then I highly recommend splitting those into two dens a piece. The recommended size of a den is 6 to 8 boys. How many of these 13 member dens do you have? I can see why your pack is feeling like things are "full".

 

As far as the irrate parent, if he is still interested in joining your pack, I would hold a meeting with the Cubmaster, Den Leader, and the Committee Chairman and invite the parent to the meeting. I would first try to resolve any issues he has before handing him an application to join Cub Scouting. Once everything is resolved I would give him the application and have him fill it out and sign it in front of the leaders, making sure he understands that the application he is signing is an agreement to be supportive of the pack and what this means. I would then tell him how he can handle any future disagreements by meeting with those leaders in that meeting.

 

If he is no longer interested in joining your pack then, well, it probably is better that way.

 

Eagle Pete

[Oak Tree]

Would I want that parent? Nope.

 

We''ve declared dens to be full, and people accept it just fine. But generally they wouldn''t know our pack from any other, so they just move on. It''s a little trickier if it''s a member of the CO. We would try hard to accomodate new members from the church. But by October, it can be hard to split a den.

 

I support your right to declare your dens to be full, and I agree the parent sounds unreasonable.

[Pack212Scouter]

I simply refer to the Webelos dens as patrols, since they are kinda in between...selecting Patrol names, flags, etc. I stand corrected on my terminology. As for the size, the only Dens we have that large are the Webelos and it includes a Den Chief.

 

The rest of our dens run from 8-10 in size. Larger than we''d like, but we were forced to go with slightly larger ones this year due to temporary facility issues. We only have rooms for 18 Dens over a 2 hour span. It should loosen up next year. We are quite litterally, a full Pack.

[packsaddle]

When I was CM, I never turned a boy away for any reason. I always found some accomodation. And I had angry parents on several occasions. I always tried to view them as concerned parents, looking out for their children and I was able to understand their emotions. But as mentioned, there may be more to this...

[eolesen]

The Cub Scout helps the pack go.

 

The pack helps the Cub Scout grow.

 

 

How does turning this boy away achieve either one?

[Pack212Scouter]

A) This webelo already has a Pack, his parent wanted to transfer.

B) Our Den sizes are stretched to their limit. At what point would you say it has to stop? 15? 20 boys per den? We have X number of rooms to use during a specific 2-hour time period on Monday nights. Now in another year this would have been less of an issue, but we have lost the use of 3 rooms this year, two of them two weeks into the meeting year.

C) We did offer to help this parent find a Pack that suited his needs. The parent was not interested, stating that they "knew everyone at the Scout Service Center."

 

Now I''m getting defensive. We try to accomidate everyone but there is a point where it starts to impact the other boys already in the Dens. It is not a decision that we wanted to make, but in the end, we felt that we had to draw a line somewhere in the numbers.

[Lisabob]

This fellow has some nerve, calling your CM out of the blue and behaving as you describe. Would ANY of us act that way when seeking to join an organization, and then be shocked when the group we wanted to join was less than enthusiastic? It makes me wonder just what he would be like once he knows you. Red flag alert, in my opinion.

 

Now - as to whether to accept new boys or split webelos dens, etc. - while I think it is important to be welcoming, there is a reality that has to be acknowledged. If the pack is not in a position to start up another den then they have a right to cap the size in order to maintain a quality program for current members. I''m thinking this is a rare occurrence to say "no" to someone - but then too, the CM did try to help this fellow locate another pack in the area. Supposing there are other packs with openings, I think that''s entirely reasonable (especially after how this guy behaved). And his point about being a member of the CO - well hmm, then why was he in a non-CO pack to start with, if that''s so important to him? (Maybe a good idea to have a friendly conversation/head''s up with your COR to head off any problems down the road too.)

 

And no, I don''t think there''s an obligation to break up a high performing team who have been together for 3 or 4 years now, just so one more person can join.

 

Finally, a word about jargon - yes, webelos use many of the symbols and trappings of a patrol. But you''ll find in the webelos book itself and all the training material that webelos are still referred to as a "den" because they are still in the cub scout program. Probably not a big deal, but just FYI.

[evmori]

Would anyone want this parent? I would say no.

 

Units are not required to take anyone. What this CM did was the correct thing to do especially after the parent went postal on him!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[SemperParatus]

I seriously doubt these dens have had the same 13 boys in them since Tigers. Somewhere, sometime, someone must have joined and been added to the den. Maybe a den went from 12 to 13 boys last year. Or maybe they were previously at 14 and then someone dropped. Why were new members allowed in the past, but this boy was shut out? I would think a member of your Chartered Organization (a church?) should certainly have access to a youth program offered by that Organization. Sad your pack would not take a new boy in. Sadder still that a parent would behave badly. Saddest is that I am not sure any lessons have been learned here.

[scoutldr]

I would tell the parent that as long as he is already registered, you would be more than happy to form a new Den and install him as the WDL. With 13 boys per den, (ideal is 6-8), there is more than enough to form a new den. But since he acted like an ass, I would not go out of my way to accomodate him. Of course your CO has the final word...not the CM.

[funscout]

LisaBob brings up some good points. I suspect that this man''s reasons for leaving his current Pack could have ended up being similar reasons for later leaving your Pack. You can''t please everyone.

 

Any time we got a transfer, it was because of a move or a scheduling conflict. We almost got a boy whose parents were upset with another Pack. When I very nicely made it clear that I would not listen to any "slamming" of another Pack, and indicated that I had friends in that Pack, the mother ended up pulling the boy from scouts altogether. It was too bad for the boy, but lucky for my Pack and the other Pack.

 

My Pack never turned anyone away, even when we ended up with dens that were way too big. However, you went out of your way to try to help this man find another Pack, so I feel you did all you needed to do.

 

If Irate Parent ends up in your Pack, then Good Luck! You''ll need it. You''ll just have to grin and bear it, like a good scout, even if I.P. doesn''t act like a good scout.

[Eagledad]

I''m with lisabob and funscout on this. I support your pack''s decisions Pack212scouter because I''ve been where you are at. We never turned away a scout, but I think we wished we had. I took a personal responsibility to make sure our Den Leaders only had what they could handle because they are the key to success of the pack. Still things don''t always work out and I personally had 17 Webelos that required so much dedicated work that I wouldn''t wish that experience on my enemies. Not that I have enemies.

 

But just as important, I had to ask a few adults to quit their den leader positions for different reasons and that is a horrible job. Looking back on it, we knew they weren''t a safe choice in the first place, but we didn''t have any prier experience with them to say no. This adult gave you a window into his behavior. Is that the person you want to lead your son, or all the other sons of parents in your pack?

 

By the way, talking with upset parents is a way of life for Scoutmasters if you are thinking in that direction. You will develop very good social skills from the experience.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

[SR540Beaver]

Pack212,

 

Let me throw out a possibility to ease your overcrowding. Back when my son was in Cubs, our CO only gave us X number of rooms to use. There was no way that the entire pack could meet at the same time. We let each den and its leaders determine which night was the best meeting night for them. We had some dens that met on Monday, some on Tuesday and some on Thursday. We even had one that met on Friday nights....but it started losing members for obvious reasons. Now, you may be limited by your CO to only one night a week for your meeting rooms, but if not, spread them out and your physical space problem goes away. Trained leadership is another story.

[Jeffrey H]

If the parent and son are a member of the CO, then I would make room for him.

 

However, in this situation, the damage is probably already done...

 

When I hear of Scouters behaving this way, I wonder if the Scout Oath and Law mean anything to them. Obviously, it does not. It''s just somehthing set to rote memory.