Individual Den fundraiser & money management

[n2cubfun]

I am a new CM & I have a situation where a Den has had a fundraiser that brought in approx. $1000.00, the Den assigned a Den Treasurer & opened it''s own checking acct. The Den then used most of it''s money for Cub Camp and the rest has been used for thier activities & projects. They have been managing fine with no issues. Now the previous CM who is now a commitees member has advised the Den Leader to immeadiately shut down the account & turn the funds over to the pack treasurer who will handle the Den''s money. I have looked thru everything I have & on the council web site & can not find any regulation stating that a Den can not have it''s own checking acct.

If anyone can give me some direction as to past experience with a situation like this and/or where I can find regulations regarding this matter, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,

 

[LongHaul]

First I''d like to know why a MC is telling a DL anything. Unless this MC is in fact CC or COR it''s not his/her position to be telling the DL what or how to run his/her den. As far as regs on Den accounts the final say rests with the CO and how they view the situation. Money raised by the den LEGALLY was raised in the name of the CO with the understanding that it be used to fund the den activity. This makes the CO accountable to the parents of the den members, legally responsible to report said funds as income when filing their yearly financial statements IN CERTAIN STATES. As the Pack is the extension of the Scouting Program chartered by the CO, National has few if any hard fast regulations about unit/den checking accounts. This is left to the CO and is usually delegated to the unit.

LongHaul

[scoutldr]

All unit fundraisers MUST be approved in writing by the Council. I trust this was done?

 

http://www.scouting.org/forms/34427.pdf

[eagle-pete]

n2cubfun

 

Welcome to the forums.

 

Strange - I''ve never heard of a den funding its own activities independent of the pack. You appear to have a den that doesn''t exactly follow the spirit of the BSA''s concept of Den -> Pack -> Chartered Organization.

 

Ultimately, this will fall on the shoulders of the Chartered Organization Representative. As LongHaul keenly pointed out, monies brought into the pack, from whatever source, technically belongs to the Chartered Organization, although typically funds acquired by the pack stay in the pack. A den that organizes its own fund raising project is not legally entitled to keep that money. By definition, it belongs to the Chartered Organization.

 

The real issue here, I believe, is where did the den receive any authorization to hold a fund raiser in the first place. According to BSA, the Chartered Organization must approve any and all fund raising efforts in the unit. This, of course, is still subject to Council approval as well, as scoutldr has rightly pointed out. I would venture to say that your Local Council may have concerns about a den in your pack independently raising funds, and then holding those funds separate, and inaccessible from the Chartered Organization. I would, frankly, be surprised if the Council approved such a project.

 

So, the first question I would have is where did the den get their approvals, both to have a fund raiser, and to keep the funds they acquire in a separate account. If they did not get the required approvals for these, I believe they are obligated to turn over all their funs to the Chartered Organization. I did some looking into the question of a den maintaining their own checking account and, like you, I could find nothing that prevents them from doing so. However, keeping funds acquired by a fund raiser without approval is what I would question. Weather they keep it in a checking account, a drawer, or in the pocket of a Cub Scout is less of an issue.

 

LongHaul is also correct to point out that this should be handled by your Committee Chair and Chartered Organization Representative (can you tell I hate using acronyms?). The Committee Member who is advising the Den Leader should probably direct his concerns to your Committee Chairman (or Cubmaster if a CC is not available).

 

I would point out that, in my ever to be humble opinion, all fund raising should be done by the pack as a whole. One of the issues which I would be concerned with, as a Cubmaster, is when dens conduct fund raising independently how does that make other dens (boys) feel when one den is raising money and, presumably, using that for activities and outings, and other dens (boys) are not able to participate because they could not participate in the fund raising, and consequently do not have the money? What does this teach the boys about working together as a team, competition, haves and have nots? As a Cubmaster I learned to look at everything through the eyes of a boy. How would a boy perceive this? (And yes, they are smart enough to know what is going on. If the den leaders don''t believe it, they are being naive.)

 

Eagle Pete

[eagle-pete]

By the way,

 

In Scouting there is no such position as a "Den Treasurer". There should be a Pack Treasurer on your pack committee. All funds should go through this individual, in which case the den that is guarding funds is not really following BSA budgeting procedure. If I was your Committee Chairman I would have a serious problem with that arrangement.

 

Eagle Pete

[n2cubfun]

Thank''s to everyone for your input. As far as approval for the fundraiser...I don''t know where that came from b/c I was an assist. Den Leader (a different den) when all of this came about.

However I do know that Council approval is required for Fundraising (I have done alot of research on alot of matters in my short tenure as Cubmaster!). I don''t know how alot of things where handled prior to my current reponsibilities but I intend to stay within BSA policies especialy to avoid conflicts like this one.

As far as competition...I agree that it is not in the best interest of the boys however, I do know that this Den has not flaunted thier fundraising or activities. I also don''t think that this den should be penalized for their actions b/c they are very active in comparison to other dens in our pack (we have 9 dens & 75 scouts). I would love to see ALL of our leaders & parents working together to insure a program full of fun & action for their dens. My biggest goal as Cubmaster is making our Pack fun with new events and a more enjoyable/entertaining Pack meeting.

Thanks again for giving your guidence and I am sure you will be hearing from me often...I look forward to getting experienced advice!

[John-in-KC]

Welcome to the Forums.

 

As CM, you have access to your Chartered Organization Representative. You need to get your Chartered Partners position on these funds, pronto. Talk to your COR.

 

As the Program Officer of the Pack, I''d recommend a simple instruction to the Den Leaders: - Go through the Committee Chair and Treasurer for funding needs.

 

If the money was not raised under a Council-approved fundraiser (and Council generally only approves ONE fundraiser per Pack per year, I''d call on the Den to do the right thing and remit the funds to the donors.

 

 

 

[infoscouter]

The Cub Scout Leader Book specifically says that dens cannot conduct fundraisers. I don''t have it at my fingertips, but I''d check the chapter on pack finances. Your commtitee member is correct, but the guidance should be coming from the Committee Chair.

[infoscouter]

I pushed submit too fast.

 

Eagle Pete adequately and very eloquently covered one of my concerns - what the other Scouts and dens felt about this situation.

 

The next question is what happens now? If they turn the money over, who gets to say how it gets spent? If the den conducted the fundraiser out of ignorance, I guess I can understand. In that case (as a committee member myself) I would be willing to set the monies aside in a "den fund" and continue to reimburse the den leaders for den expenses. If this was an intentional end run, to fund an ambitious den leader''s goals in the absence of Scout accounts and pack support, you have different issues.

[FScouter]

The Cub Scout Leader Book has guidance on fundraising and finances.

 

Along the lines of what Eagle-Pete has written, you might take a minute to consider WHY the den felt the need to raise funds. What''s the use of a pack if the individual dens see themselves as separate entities? It hardly makes sense for a pack to have 4 dens, 4 treasurers, 4 bank accounts, and 4 uncoordinated fundraising efforts. The function of a den is to provide a program for the boys in the den. The pack should be planning fundraising to support the programs of the pack''s dens. When dens need funds, the pack should provide funds.

 

If however the pack has no plan, it would not be surprising to see individual dens go off and do their own thing.

[Oak Tree]

I too would be surprised to see a den in our pack go off and do its own fundraiser. So I''m curious as to how it got to be that way.

 

But given that it''s been done, would I demand that they turn over the money to the CO, or to the pack, or return it to the donors? Only if I wanted to sour all the den parents on Scouting. There''s no fraud - they are using the money for the purpose intended. I''d let them keep it, and I''d encourage them to use it up and get into a position where they don''t feel the need to do it again.