Totin' Chip

[Dan Williamson]

Help...We are short final for summer camp and want to complete requirements for Chip. Many of our new Scouts earned the Whittlin' Chip in Webelos. Q..Is the Whittlin' Chip still valid for them? I know that the Totin' Chip covers ax and saw in addition to pocketknife and should be earned anyway BUT is the Whittlin' Chip still valid for those boys who crossed over or is it a Cub Scout only thing.

[sctmom]

Whittlin' chip is a Cub Scout thing only. My son's troop held classes for the Totin' Chip at the first campout for the new scouts a few months ago. The boys pay close attention to this because they are VERY interested in earning that Totin' Chip.

 

[Dan Williamson]

It doesn't pass the common sense test that a Scout was autorized to carry a pocketknife as a Cub and now all of a sudden he can't. Even a 10 year old can see the injustice in that trail of logic. I can understand getting the Totin' Chip for the purpose of working with an ax and saw but I can't understand revoking a boys right to carry a pocket knife IF he has previously earned the Whittlin' Chip.

[dan]

Where would you draw the line on what could and could not be brought over from Cubs to Boy Scouts? The line must be drawn somewhere.

I had a discussion with other leaders about signing off of the YP phamplet in the front of the Scout Handbook, they said they did this in Cub Scouts just sign the book, I did not.

I believe the only things that can be brought over from Cubs to Boys are the Arrow of Light and religioious Knots. The above 2 are in the Handbook. You have this in writing, show this to the PLC, I do not know how they could not come up with any other decsion than new scouts need to earn the totin chip.

[sctmom]

The logic we used was that only a Cub Scout can have a Whittlin' chip. The boys are no longer Cub Scouts. Same as a sister who can carry a pocketknife in Girl Scouts, cannot carry that same pocketknife at a Cub Scout event.

 

[ScoutNut]

Dan W -

 

You say you are working towards completing the requirements for the Totin' Chip award. I do not understand why the question about the Cub Scout Whittling Chip. Are you trying to use the fact that your Scouts earned the Whittling Chip in 3rd grade to avoid completing the knife requirements (or all of the requirements) for the Boy Scout Totin' Chip?

 

If that is the case then I would have to strenously disagree with you! First, not all boys complete this award. It is only 1 of 11 activities available to earn a portion of their requirements towards their Cub Scout Bear rank. The Whittling Chip is VERY basic. It pretty much just introduces a boy to what a pocketknife is, how to care for it, and some VERY simple whittling. It is geared towards a THIRD GRADER! It gives the CUB SCOUT who earns it the privilege of carrying a pocketknife at CUB SCOUT functions. NOT at BOY SCOUT functions.

 

The Totin' Chip (which is geared towards a SIXTH GRADER or up) is much more involved. It is intended to teach BOY SCOUTS the use of tools for camping and outdoor activities.

 

Please do NOT shortcut requirements. The Cub Scout Whittling Chip can NOT be used towards Boy Scout advancement!

[Dan Williamson]

Scoutnut, et al,

I'M NOT TRYING TO SHORT CUT ANYTHING. I am very strict about things like this but usually default to common sense when "rules" are not clear or unspecified. They are going to earn the Totin' Chip. The circumstances matter in my mind. In this case the Scouts crossed over as a group (12 of them) to the same troop and their Webelos adult leadership came with them. Me included. I went from Assistant Cubmaster and "parent who went to all Webelos Den meetings" to Scoutmaster of their troop. The Den Leader and Assistant Den Leader became the Asistant Scoutmasters of the two new Scout patrols that this cohort of 12 formed. We diligently went through the Boy Scout joining tasks with this band of 12 even though the tasks look and smell like some of the last tasks they completed as Webelos. So what you are saying, for example, is that last week they could carry a pocket knife but this week, since they became Boy Scouts, they can't carry one. To follow that rat down the hole they would not be allowed to wear the same pocketknife they have been wearing for a year with their uniform at camp (technically even on the trip TO camp- since they will travel in uniform) UNTIL they have earned the Totin' Chip which covers the same pocketknife but goes further into the ax and saw. Believe I'm reaching logic burnout here.

[yaworski]

Dan,

 

Since your Cub Scouts learned the square knot while working on Wolf did you give them credit for that when they were working on Bear?

 

Some requirements repeat. Some don't.

 

[yaworski]

"Same as a sister who can carry a pocketknife in Girl Scouts, cannot carry that same pocketknife at a Cub Scout event."

 

Sorry but that dog don't hunt. Using your logic, a Cub Scout couldn't carry his knife when he visits a Camporee, and a Boy Scout can't carry his knife when he visits a Cub Scout bike rodeo.

 

The certification is for life in general, not just scouting events. Alas, today kids cannot carry knives with them everywhere but that doesn't change the meaning of the chip.

 

 

[sctmom]

"Sorry but that dog don't hunt. Using your logic, a Cub Scout couldn't carry his knife when he visits a Camporee, and a Boy Scout can't carry his knife when he visits a Cub Scout bike rodeo. "

 

I can let my child carry a pocketknife around the neighborhood even if he is not in Cubs. The Cub Scout Whittlin' Chip gives them permission to carry it at Cub Scout events. No, he can't carry it at a Camporee. At least not in the District/Council. Also in the Council, the girl scouts of the same age cannot carry a knife at the family campouts. Each year our council has a family campout that includes pumpkin carving. The only ones allowed to actually carve a pumpking are Cub Scouts with a whittlin' chip. The siblings and other children must draw on their pumpkin, they can't even use a kitchen knife for the pumpkin carving.

 

How often does a Cub Scout need to be walking around with a knife? Same with the boys on their way to summer camp. Do they really need to carry their knife? If so, cover the Totin' Chip before you leave. I have seen and agreed with the Cub leader who took away a knife at the Pinewood Derby. The child did not need it there, it was handed to his mom.

 

Life isn't fair, sorry. You may get to carry your knife at home but we follow the rules of Scouting when we are at a Scouting event.

 

Dan I strongly suggest you cover the Totin' Chip as soon as possible. If your boys all had Whittlin' Chips then the knife safety part will not take long at all. A lot of things for the first year in Boy Scouts are a repeat of Webelos skills, but as I told my son "Done it before? Great, you should have no problem showing your skill once again. And it gives you some extra practice."

 

[yaworski]

"Also in the Council, the girl scouts of the same age cannot carry a knife at the family campouts."

 

What about a girl who isn't a Girl Scout?

 

"How often does a Cub Scout need to be walking around with a knife?"

 

I've carried a knife nearly every day since I was nine. It has been used almost daily since then. I'm sorry if you can't see the utility of having a knife at all times.

 

"You may get to carry your knife at home but we follow the rules of Scouting when we are at a Scouting event."

 

Sure you do. I'd be willing to bet that I could find more than a dozen violations of various rules at any of your functions.

 

 

 

[KoreaScouter]

Methinks this may be a case of adults making a mountain out of a molehill. Every Troop, every year, that bridges W2s from their feeder Pack (if they're lucky enough to have one) deals with this. In my experience, the Scouts themselves are eager to divest themselves of "little guy" stuff like the Whittlin' Chip (although many still want to do Pinewood Derby...).

 

In military working dog circles, there is an expression: "What goes down the leash, comes up the leash". In other words, the dogs (Scouts) pick up the attitudes of their handlers (adult leaders) and adopt them as their own. I recommend the Totin' Chip training be considered a rite of passage with enthusiastic support from all grownups, at least publicly.

 

Dan, you're going to encounter many examples of "We did this last year, why do we have to do it again?", such as the Tenderfoot camping requirement. As someone who walked your path not so long ago, I'd advise you to stick to the rules, even if they seem to peg your logic meter. As a distillation of 92 years of experience by millions of Scouts and Scouters, it's done that way on purpose rather than as an accidental oversight.

 

Good luck in your new position!

[Double Eagle]

My guidance is that in order to use the knife only, they must at least have the whittlin chip. If they want to use the other woods tools, they have to earn their totin chip. One way to help this process is to offer the totin chip on the first day of camp. While some moving of stuff is happening, those needing it, can. The thought of me not being able cut, chop, and saw (grew up in the Michigan woods) seems like a bummer. My experience is that at camp, they will try to use the tools whether with or without the training. Better to teach them the right way than to try on their own out of site and in turn earn the first aid merit badge for self inflicted wounds.

 

[sctmom]

Per the U.S. Scouting Project:

 

Whittling Chip:

In return for the privilege of carrying a pocketknife at Cub Scout functions, I agree to the following:

 

I will complete the Shavings and Chips Achievement 19 in the Bear Cub Scout Book. I understand the rules for safe use of a pocketknife.

I will handle my pocketknife with care.

I will always close my pocketknife and put it away when not in use.

I will not use my pocketknife when it might injure someone near me.

I promise never to throw my pocketknife for any reason.

I will use my pocketknife in a safe manner at all times.

 

[zippy]

Our W2's crossed over in mid-March, and attended their first campout about 2 weeks later. The primary goal for this campout is to welcome the new Scouts, and to get them their Firem'n Chit and their Totin' Chip. They also learned a lot about our troop's tents and kitchen equipment, and did a little Tenderfoot work.

 

The older boys all got a little leadership and either a little "free time" or a chance to work on a requirement or two.

 

P.S. Our new scouts came from W2 dens called the Lightning and the Eagle patrols. The merged Patrol is the Thunderbirds, and their patch is the Flying Eagle clutching a lightning bolt. It's a cool name and patch.