"Mandatory Volunteering" in Cub Scouts

[John-in-KC]

I heartily agree with ScoutNut and LisaBob.

 

The registered Scouters (DLs, CM/ACM, CC, MCs) are already giving of their time, energy, and most likely funds to make the program happen. Mandating they do more is a tremendous method...to drive the good people right out the door

 

As far as parents: There's a huge body of wisdom which says "ask them to help with a small task. Be gracious and effusive when they accept. Ask them again when another task comes up. At the right moment, ask them to come onboard to be a Scouter."

 

If someone had told me I had to do this, I would have walked right out the door and not looked back. Some other youth serving activity would have been where I sent my son.

[Eamonn]

I kinda think I made where I stand on this clear in the other thread.

If anyone is saying that in order for a Lad to belong to Cub Scout Pack "666" (or whatever) his parents have to (NOT CHOOSE TOO!!) become involved in Pack activities.

They are in fact in violation of the Membership Rules laid down by the BSA.

Having thought about this!!

I'm not sure why? Or what you need them to do?

Back in the day !! (Sorry!!) When I was a Cubmaster.

Pack 155 had about 70 active Cub Scouts.

The Dens did their thing!! Weekly meetings, the odd little trip to someplace local - The post office, the local newspaper.

The District had a District Pinewood Derby for the Tigers and the Cub Scouts who were lucky enough to win the top 3 places. The Lads parents or whoever looked after them took them to the event.

There was Day Camp, again most parents were working so they dropped the little fellows off and then picked them up at the end of the day. Some parents did volunteer to help. (The Day Camp Director had very sexy knees.)

Council had a resident camp. The Pack provided one adult for every five boys. Parents did volunteer, but normally the Dens worked out who was going.

Then there was the Pack activities:

Parent and Son Camp - The Cub Scouts camped as part of the Pack under the leadership of the Den Leaders (This was pre BALOO) The pack Committee took care of the "Work"

The Fishing Derby. Organized by the Pack Committee.

Blue and Gold Banquet again the Pack Committee with input from the leaders.

The Baseball game -Pack Committee.

Different parades -Den Leaders

Special Pack Meetings (Halloween, Christmas) The Cubmaster with help from the Den Leader Coach and Den Leaders.

Pack Pinewood Derby -The Pack Committee.

I'm guessing we had about 45 families.

We had a Pack Committee of 16 (Den Leaders were not part of the Committee)

Of course if the person in charge of an event needed help they asked a Parent if they could help.

But I really wouldn't know what to do with 90 Mums and Dads who were press ganged into service!!

Ea.

[Cubmaster Mike]

Thanks for the trip down memory lane Eamonn. I have dear memories like that from childhood as well. But den mothers having meetings in the afternoon at their home and all the neighborhood boys wearing their uniform to school doesn't happen anymore. 21st century pack leadership is not the same. That's why National updates the program.

 

Who said anything about having DLs, CMs, or CCs do anything else? Everyone gets all up in arms about working your position and being asked to do more. Scoutnut and KC, where do you see anywhere in this thread that people in positions are being asked to do more? I think Chuck is asking about those who are not registered leaders being asked to chip in and help.

[ScoutNut]

"Who said anything about having DLs, CMs, or CCs do anything else? Everyone gets all up in arms about working your position and being asked to do more. Scoutnut and KC, where do you see anywhere in this thread that people in positions are being asked to do more?"

 

 

 

As I stated in one of my posts above -

 

 

 

""ScoutNut, wouldn't being DL be your "required volunteering?""

 

I was actually referring to the following comment in the original thread -

 

"Our Pack is pursuing a philosophy and program of mandatory family support during two activities per year with assigned teams. Unless there is a REAL good reason for doing so, nobody ducks this expectation, not even Den leaders (they only have to support one activity due to their Den responsibilities)." "

 

 

 

Since this comment is what this thread was spun off from, I felt that it was fair to include it. As you can see, he IS including Den Leaders.

 

For your next comment -

 

 

 

"I think Chuck is asking about those who are not registered leaders being asked to chip in and help."

 

 

 

I think that "mandatory family support" is a bit MORE than "being asked to chip in and help".

 

Now, I do not know what Chuck considers "a REAL good reason" for not doing your assigned activities, but, as I stated before, Den Leader or not, I know I would not want to stay in his unit.

 

 

 

"Thanks for the trip down memory lane Eamonn. I have dear memories like that from childhood as well. But den mothers having meetings in the afternoon at their home and all the neighborhood boys wearing their uniform to school doesn't happen anymore. 21st century pack leadership is not the same."

 

 

 

Well, maybe not in your Pack or in Chuck's, but our Pack runs pretty darn similar to Eamonn's. Our parents mostly all help out, in some way or another, when asked. There are a VERY few who do not help out much, some I know (or can guess) the reasons why, some I do not (and will NOT ask). If we ask for help, and they are able to give it, they do. We have NEVER had to cancel an activity because of lack of adult help.

 

[John-in-KC]

I refer the Honorable Cubmaster Mike to the reply ScoutNut made directly above.

 

 

[Jeffrey H]

Forced/mandatory voluteering is not necessary to retain membership. If they refuse to serve, they are on their way out anyway and will not be on next year's member roll at re-charter time. When people will not give of their time, they automatically relinquish the privilege of serving to others who will. When registered leaders start to become "absent", then that's the time to ask others to take their place.

 

We have "unregistered" parents in our Pack that are more giving of their time than some of our registered leaders. My point is this: The "no-doers" will fall out and fall away and the interested will fall into place.

 

 

[Eamonn]

"Thanks for the trip down memory lane Eamonn. I have dear memories like that from childhood as well. But den mothers having meetings in the afternoon at their home and all the neighborhood boys wearing their uniform to school doesn't happen anymore. 21st century pack leadership is not the same. That's why National updates the program."

Being as this is a site about Scouting.

I'm sure Cubmaster Mike was being kind when he posted the above.

Yes Mike my Mother-in-law was a Den Mother and was active as you so describe.

My son has just turned 19 and I'm not talking about the Dark ages!!

Without wishing or wanting to put anyone down.

I have found that in most cases people don't volunteer because:

1/ We don't ask.

2/ We don't go about asking the right people.

3/ We don't ask the right way.

Having an active Pack Management Committee, filled with people who the Nominating Committee has selected and asked correctly, will solve all the problems that most packs and units have.

The key lies in taking the time to really think about what positions need filled.

Asking for a volunteer and not utilizing them or giving them busy work is never a good thing.

Identifying the best person available for the position and having a planned "Ask" done correctly, with a clearly defined job description will and does work.

What doesn't work is the poor CM standing up at a Pack Meeting telling everyone that they need to help.

Mass mailings are a waste of money.

But the worst thing we can do in my view is to try and force anyone into doing something that they don't want to do.

If I have provide an enjoyable trip down memory lane? I'm really happy.

But I'd be a lot happier if we could bring more young Lads into Scouting and keep them in.

This of course is dependent on having volunteers who want to do the job they volunteer to take on.

Happy volunteers make for happy Scouts and happy Scouts remain in Scouting, because the happy volunteers are happy providing a good program.

Eamonn.

 

[acco40]

I think many of you are reading too much into the original post.

Please feel free to debate the issue of whether it is appropriate to ask for a Pack to develop and execute plans to require volunteer time/support as a condition of being a member of that one pack.

 

I still stand by my original post - yes it is okay. I think what most of you are objecting to is not if but what that plan should be.

 

For example, if you had a family come to your pack and state, We would like to have our son join your pack but first let me state that we, as his parents, will not, under any circumstances, volunteer any time or support whatsoever to your pack. - I think you would be totally within your right to refuse membership to this Scout/family. Again, Cub Scouts is a family program - family involvement is required. Therefore, I think if a pack developed and instituted a plan that simply stated that - Pack 123 has the expectation that all families we be active participants in the pack as a precondition for membership. - is not only an "allowed" idea but a good idea.

 

I agree that being heavy handed, stating that one must volunteer a certain number of hours, attend so many meetings, etc. is not a good idea and would turn many off. But the question was not how they should develop and execute a plan and not what that plan should be. It was simply if it appropriate to develop a plan.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[ScoutNut]

"please feel free to debate the issue of whether it is appropriate to ask for a Pack to develop and execute plans to require volunteer time/support as a condition of being a member of that one pack (not Scouting in general)."

 

 

I think that most of us feel that the answer to this is that - NO it is NOT appropriate.

[John-in-KC]

I'm shoulder to shoulder with ScoutNut on this one!

[acco40]

So ScoutNut & John-in-KC, please, what would your response be (if you were the Committee Chair for a Pack) if a parent came to you with the following: We would like to have our son join your pack but first let me state that we, as his parents, will not, under any circumstances, volunteer any time or support whatsoever to your pack.

[Eamonn]

"For example, if you had a family come to your pack and state, We would like to have our son join your pack but first let me state that we, as his parents, will not, under any circumstances, volunteer any time or support whatsoever to your pack. - I think you would be totally within your right to refuse membership to this Scout/family."

No.

I disagree.

Family involvement is not a condition of membership into the BSA.

Yes Family Involvement is a method of Cub Scouting.

"Family involvement is an essential part of Cub Scouting. When we speak of parents or families, we are not referring to any particular family structure. Some boys live with two parents, some live with one parent, some have foster parents, and some live with other relatives or guardians. Whoever a boy calls his family is his family in Cub Scouting"

(Copied from :

http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/about/pandm.html )

Under "Your Role as a Parent" the BSA Site states:

"Some specific things you can do to help your son in Cub Scouting are

Work with your son on projects

Help your Cub Scout along the advancement trail

Participate in monthly pack meetings

Attend parent-leader conferences

Go on family campouts with your son

Provide support for your son's den and pack.

It goes on to say:

It's important to remember that the adult leaders of your son's den and pack are volunteers who give their own time to provide a quality program for your son. While they have been carefully selected and extensively trained for their roles, there are always times when they could use help from parents in the pack.

Pack events such as the pinewood derby, blue and gold banquet, or field days take a lot of effortmore than the monthly meetings. The pack's leaders would likely welcome any help you can give. Likewise, den leaders will be grateful to parents who can lend a hand with field trips and outings. By pitching in as needed, you can show your son the importance of helping others. So be on the lookout for opportunities for you to help the den, the pack, and its leaders.

 

I would hope that if we (volunteer leaders) are going to reach out to do what we can for any kid, the Lad who has parents who state "let me state that we, as his parents, will not, under any circumstances, volunteer any time or support whatsoever to your pack."

Is the Lad who more than lightly will benefit most from our programs and my hope is that we would welcome him with open arms.

When all is said and done it is the Boy who is becoming a member not his family.

Parents who want to get involved will.

Kids of parents who are not willing to help their children need us far more than we might know.

To turn a Lad away because of his parents?

No way.

Eamonn.

 

 

 

 

[acco40]

Eamonn, I'm old fashioned. When I stated "parents" I meant family involvement. Yes, I've had Scouts who had grandparent involvement but no "parent." So, yes technically, I would allow a Scout to join a Pack with no parent involvement but he would need "family" involvement. You stated in your post (from scourting.org) that yes indeed: "Family involvement is an essential part of Cub Scouting."

 

 

 

[eagle-pete]

As stated on the Boy Scouts of America Youth Application, parents sign and agree to the following when their son joins the BSA -

 

"Parent Agreement

I have read the Cub Scout Promise and I want my son to join the pack. I will assist him in observing the policies of the Boy Scouts of America and of his packs chartered organization. I will

While he is a Tiger Cub, serve as his adult partner and participate in all meetings and activities and

approve his advancement.*

While he is a Cub Scout, help him grow as a Cub Scout and approve his Cub Scout advancement.

While he is a Tiger Cub, Cub Scout, or Webelos Scout, attend monthly pack meetings and take part in

other activities; assist pack leaders as needed.

*If the parent is not serving as the adult partner, the parental signature on the application indicates

approval of the adult partner and also if the adult partner does not live at the same address as the

Tiger Cub, a separate adult application is required."

 

It may be helpful to remind them of this agreement if they are unwilling to help in the pack. However, I am not real big on making anyone do anything. As a volunteer myself, I do whatever I can as a scout leader. To date, no one has ever made me do anything in BSA. I would have a hard time forcing any such expectations on others.

 

Just my $0.02

 

Eagle Pete

[ScoutNut]

"what would your response be (if you were the Committee Chair for a Pack) if a parent came to you with the following: We would like to have our son join your pack but first let me state that we, as his parents, will not, under any circumstances, volunteer any time or support whatsoever to your pack."

 

Well, first let me say that in the 13 years I have been involved with our Pack, not even one family has ever stated anything close to the above.

 

If at some future time a family did state this, we would tell that family that we were sorry to hear that, that they would be missing out on a lot, but that we always need help in many different forms throughout the year and, if their circumstances ever changed where they felt they could be of some help, in even a small way, to just let us know. welcome to Pack # 123!

 

Meanwhile we would periodically ask them if they felt they could do small things, like bring a gal of OJ for a Pack meeting snack, or help with a station at a Pack meeting activity, or drive their son to a den outing. If the answer is no, that's fine, but I bet that eventually you would start getting a yes or 2 and that might lead to more, or not. The main thing is that their boy is learning and growing and having fun.