In over my Head, Cubmaster issues

[Packmom0419]

I stepped into a Committee Chair position at the beginning of the summer. Holy Cow it's a lot of responsibility. My problem is a Cubmaster who is poor at communication of any kind. He likes to do his own thing without getting input from other Committee members. Not to mentions he's horrible at effective large group communication. He never answers e-mail, or phone calls. He'll communicate with the awards chair only, and she can't figure out why. To her defense she's the most experience committee member so she gets a lot of questions. I have a lot of great ideas, but without the cubmasters support, I sort of feel like they are going no where. Anyways would like some advice on how to possibly handle this situation. Like for instance if someone else could MC the pack meetings the boys would be more likely to listen and be more enthusiastic. He's very monotone, and mumbles. The boys don't listen to him at all. Thanks for any advice.

[scoutldr]

Welcome to the forums...and congratulations on stepping up to the plate! To quote a former member of these forums, "training, training, training!" First of all, everyone in a registered position should get trained...if they are not already. Secondly, the CM is appointed by, and serves at the pleasure of, the Chartered Organization(CO), not the Pack Committee. I am accused of the very same things that you list as shortcomings, and I was a successful CM for 5 years. Standing up in front of crowds and making a fool of myself is not my thing...so I made sure that the Pack meeting agenda included as little of that as possible...fill up the time with songs, skits, stunts, cheers, awards, refreshments, etc, all led by other people...each den can be responsible for a portion of every pack meeting. If your Pack is too large to do all that...then your Pack is too large and should consider splitting. That happened to us...with 150 boys, it took 2 hrs just to hand out awards ... BOOORRRRINNNGGGG.

 

Thirdly, continuing education. Monthly Roundtables and annual Pow Wow (or whatever your Council calls it) are a wealth of information and the exchange of ideas.

 

Good Luck and Good Scouting!

[kb6jra]

Welcome to the forum and Congrats on taking on the job of Pack CC. Below are my thoughts.

 

I think that what Scoutldr said is about what you need to push - Training for all adult leaders. By what you've posted, it sounds like your CM is not trained unfortunately. If your committee feels the same way you do, then you should consider making training a priority in your Pack. If you do choose to make it a priority, then you should take it upon yourselves (collectively as a Pack) to ALL get trained. Pack training can take as little as 2.5 - 3 hours total and is well worth the investment of time.

 

Do you hold regular committee meetings? Does the CM attend? If not, why? You and he should be working hand in hand to lead the Pack in the right direction, you may need to make a friend of him and get him to understand your communication needs, as well as you understanding his.

 

Regarding the Pack Meeting, that's the CM's bailywick. That's part of the Program and Program is what the CM's job is all about. I wouldn't take it upon myself to make changes for him in this arena, but I would offer help and advice in a friendly format.

 

Warning: Personal Story! I was a CM for 3.5 years while my son was a cub and I loved it. I worked every month on some new fun stuff and didn't repeat myself very often. I even got to help out at den meetings once a year (big deal for the little kids, having the CM show up to their den meeting). Now I took over the Pack from a CM that was not very imaginative. He tried but he was a bit boring. When I took the job I wasn't much better because I'd only seen what he'd done. Took some training and had a very supportive and creative den leader give me ideas and resources. We worked together very well, people thought we were married because we were always together at the meetings. My wife and her husband thought that it was pretty funny too, and played it at every turn. At any rate, we had great Pack meetings, activities and outings.

 

Pack Committee Chair is a position that has a lot of responsibility, but you should not be the hardest worker in your Committee. Quite the opposite, you should have all the bases covered by others. Delegate and recruit active participating committee members from your parents. Get the new parents involved asap and keep fresh blood flowing into your committee.

 

Good luck, and remember if you're in a real bind, get some help from your Commissioner staff. That's why they get paid the big bucks.

[Novice_Cubmaster]

Hi Packmom,

Sorry to tell you this - I don't think training will fix your biggest problems. Training will show you how to have fun pack meetings & keep them interesting - even if the CM mumbles in a monotone. However, training won't make your CM a better communicator, or listen to input from other committee members - which seems to me to be the big issue.

 

It's possible that past experience convinced your CM that the awards chair was the only committee member worth dealing with. Likewise, if den leaders in the past weren't committed to den participation in pack meetings and other events, he may not feel its worth the effort now to involve them. How many of us have ever taken on a task we know we're not good at, but don't feel we can trust anybody else to help with. In which case, your CM needs to be shown that the rest of the leaders are truly ready, willing and able to work with him as team, and can be trusted to do their part - if he'll let them.

 

Assuming that other Leaders & Committee Members feel the way you do, this is something that needs to be hashed out at a leaders meeting. Or if he doesn't go to leaders meetings, y'all need to catch him at the end of the next pack meeting.

 

Hopefully, it is just a bad experience/trust issue with your CM & that it can be overcome.

 

Or maybe he's just a control freak (and training won't fix that, either).

 

 

NC

[ScoutNut]

While training is not the panacea for all of a unit's ills, it does help you see what what kind of a program BSA actually expects you to be putting on. It can show you where your unit is off track and even give you ideas on how to get it back on track.

 

In Packmom's case, training will show her what her responsibilities as a CC are and give her some ideas on how to accomplish them. It will show her how her Pack fits in with her District and Council, how her Pack should be running and what the responsibilities of the rest of her Pack's leadership are.

 

Training will also introduce her to other volunteers in her area who she can call upon if she has questions.

 

Packmom, I agree that some of your Pack's issues should be addressed at Committee Meetings. Part of every meeting should be a "roses & thorns" session on the previous Pack meeting, and ways to improve the upcoming one. However your issues with the CM should be addressed with him in person. The Cubmaster and the CC are part of a team and should be working together to create the best possible Cub Scout program they can for their boys. It they don't talk to each other this can not happen.

 

Since your CM will only talk to the awards chair, have the awards chair invite the CM to an informal chat session. At your house would be good, but if you think that would not work then do it at a local coffee house or restaurant. Find out what his vision of the Pack is and share yours. Discuss his communication issues. Talk about what can be done to help him be a more effective Cubmaster. It might be as simple as finding some volunteers to be the Pack secretary, Pack ceremony/sparkler person, etc. You might even find out that he really does not like being CM, and being up in front of everyone, and would rather hold a different position in the Pack.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Mostly, what Scoutldr said.

 

The Chartered Partner is the licensee of Scouting. The COR is, or should be, "the person on the spot" vetting leader selection and taking a constant look at the quality of the program and the quality of the support.

 

One option is the friendly one: Go to the man's house and invite for a cup of coffee. Find out why he stands where he does. There may (and quite possibly are) reasons pre-dating your tenure.

 

Another option is to get the COR involved: Same thing (have a cup of coffee somewhere) and work through how program and support sides help each other out.

 

Another person who may give you help is your Unit Commissioner. The district Commissioner's Service has usually seen it all and has multiple answers to the problems at hand.

 

Den leaders need a buy-in too: All Dens need to have something to do with Pack meetings, and it needs to be FUN stuff. We grownups can set chairs and sweep up afterwards, the kids need to do FUN THEME RELATED STUFF!! Skits, Flag ceremony, songs, games... fun stuff.

 

My worldview only: The CM should also be the Pack Trainer. He/she should help DL's learn and do their jobs, so the program is coherent across the Pack. Again, my opinion only.

[Novice_Cubmaster]

John,

 

I really like the idea of the CM being the Pack Trainer.

 

I could see the CM being the trainer for the Den Leaders & the CC handling the committee members. What a great way for the scouters on the "program" side or the "operations" side to all be on the same page.

 

PS - I do apologize for sounding negative regarding training. My wife & I have been scouters for 4 years, and the quality of training in our area has been inconsistant - plus, I have never liked instructors that basically read out loud from a fixed text. Roundtables, where you can hook up with somebody that's "been there, done that" have been a lot more valuable for ideas in real-world situations.

 

NC

 

 

[John-in-KC]

NC,

 

I understand your comment on training that matters. The way to fix that is to get people involved not only in unit service but also in district service, TRAINING. You will find many of us here have lamented boring, read from the book (hey I can do that at home) training.

 

We all need a common framework to operate from. Training is the foundation of that framework, RT (and I'm an RT staffer, so it's important to me) provides program support training to prepare you for the coming months!

[Cubmaster Randy]

I disagree that the Cubmaster should be the Pack Trainer.

That is a separate position. However, (from the job description of CM) he should Guide and support den leaders and see that they receive the required training for their positions

 

The role of the Pack Trainer

 

The pack trainer is responsible for:

Conducting orientation of new families and pack leaders. (See Chapter 10 of the Cub Scout Leader Book, "Den and Pack Management.")

Training each new leader and pack committee member for his or her specific position, using material provided by the BSA.

Helping with Unit Leadership Enhancements during pack leaders' meetings.

Conducting other training as designated by the district and/or council.

Encouraging pack leaders to attend ongoing training, such as roundtable, pow wow or University of Scouting, outdoor training, Youth Protection training, and Wood Badge.

Remaining current with training material and program updates.

Keeping track of pack training records.

 

The goal of the pack trainer is to have 100 percent of the pack leadership trained in their position responsibilities. New leaders and adult family members should receive orientation within one week of joining the pack, and leaders should receive position-specific training within 30 days

 

[kb6jra]

Regarding quality of training, you'll find that even within councils, different districts have different approaches.

 

My council is pretty big, 9 districts serving 40,000 youth. Each district is responsible for developing it's own training teams. They tried unsuccessfully in the past few years in having two districts team up and share training resources. Seems there's just too much rivalry.

 

I'm proud of the way our district approaches training, very professionally and expectations of the presenters and trainers is very high. Other districts don't have that same commitment and it definitely shows in the quality of their programs and the leadership they produce.

 

I realize that training is not the whole answer, especially in this situation, but if the training is delivered effectively and consistently, it would put everyone in this situation on a level playing Field and give everyone the foundation they need to develop their Pack Program to it's fullest. Positions and roles would be defined and all would understand his or her place in the mix.

 

Now with that being stated, if this pack wanted to get fully trained, it could happen in one night with a team of 5 trainers and a few hours time. We've done it that way before. Or your council or district should have one Cub leader basic training at least every couple of months from the time school starts through the blue and gold season.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Randy,

 

I see everything the Pack Trainer does as being PROGRAM IN NATURE, not support.

 

The Chief Program Officer of a unit is the ___Master.

 

It's his lane. We obviously will agree to disagree on this one, that's ok.

[Lisabob]

About that pack trainer position - at least around here, it is severely under-utilized. As far as I know, I'm the only person in the area who has ever registered as PT - and I have gotten to know an awful lot of cub scouters. I disagree a little bit that the CM should wear this hat too, because while training is important and the CM should encourage the DLs to get to training, the CM is already so busy with making the program "go" that it would be helpful to have someone else on the committee in charge of keeping up with training dates, keeping training records current, and cajoling people into attending.

 

Also, PT can be a powerful position to advocate change in a unit that is suffering, or is sub-par. Sometimes it is better for someone who isn't the CM to do that too - esp if the CM is part of the problem.

 

But, John, I see what you're saying too. And I'd rather have more CMs serve dual roles as CM/PT than not have PTs at all, which is where we're at around here.

[Cubmaster Randy]

What I heard you say was that the CM should be the pack trainer. What I was trying to say was that the Cubmaster should not be the Pack Trainer because it is an administrative/support position.The Pack trainer does has a specific spot on the organization chart. I am not a fan of a CM or CC having multiple jobs within a unit In reality, most packs currently don't have pack trainers and the repsonsibility falls on the CM or CC, but that could be a seperate thread.

pack org chart

http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=ca

 

 

I took the job descrition from the website.

I do agree that the cubmaster needs to be involved in the training of the den leaders. The job description says guide and support the den leaders. That could mean a bunch of things. it could mean teach, (Guide is part of EDGE). It could be take them to roundtable or have them sign up for training. The pack trainer covers the entire pack leadership, not just the den leaders

I don't think we necessarily disagree, we are just saying it in a different way

 

BTW There is a Pack Trainer Award. It is the newest recognition available to Cub Scout leaders who complete specific training, tenure, and performance requirements. The award recognizes the important role the pack trainer performs in mentoring new adult leaders and families in their pack. Similar to other Cub Scout leader recognition awards, it is presented by the local council and is represented on the uniform by a square knot insignia worn above the left shirt pocket.

Requirements include serving two years as a registered pack trainer, completing specific training (including Fast Start, New Leader Essentials, and Youth Protection Training), and achieving designated levels of performance involving delivering, planning, and promoting training to pack leadership. (Scouters registered as pack trainers must use Sept. 1, 2006, as the start date for tenure and performance requirements.)

Information on their requirements is available at http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/resources/13-595.

(This message has been edited by Cubmaster Randy)

[kb6jra]

 

What I heard you say was...

 

I think Cubmaster Randy payed attention in the Communications presentation at Wood Badge! LOL