COPE, Zip Lines and Cubs

[WDL Mom]

Hi All,

 

Here is a proposed activity for my Webelos II den for this summer.

 

Visit a local certified commercial COPE operation.

* Participate in 7 low ropes team building activities.

* Slide down a 300 ft. zip line over a restored prarie area.

* Pan for gems and minerals.

* Wagon tour of the restored prarie.

 

My question is in regards to the Guide to Safe Scouting. The only thing I see in it regarding COPE that might pertain to Cub Scouts is:

 

"Units may participate in age-appropriate initiative games, but under no circumstances should attempt to construct low- or high-course elements."

 

So, am I ok with the low ropes? What about the zip line? I was unable to find any reference to the zip line in the Guide to Safe Scouting.

 

Any help or direction on where to check would be greatly appreciated.

I don't want to bring this up to the boys before I am sure that we can actually do the activity...

[OldGreyEagle]

From the BSA web site:

 

http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/ageguides.pdf

 

At the bottom of page 2 is where Cope is mentioned.

 

Low Ropes equals Low Elements, leastwise where I live it does.

 

Kinda bugs me, cause if you have experienced people at a commcercial site, I am pretty sure they will be safety conscious and not do anything dangerous. SOunds line a great trip

[Beavah]

Yah, no problem with your proposed activity, WDL. Just da usual - make sure you're comfortable with the boys' maturity level for the type of activity, make sure it's "challenge by choice" and that there's a graceful way for boys who are scared to "opt out" with everyone's support, and make sure the commercial provider is properly trained and equipped to deal with boys their age and size. The big concern is psychological maturity, eh?

 

Project COPE is a BSA-specific program, it's not a generic name for ropes course stuff. So there's specific project COPE rules that don't apply to an outside commercial outfitter providing a ropes course opportunity. (Those other providers have similar internal rules and insurance restrictions, too, of course, but they also differ because they have a more professional, less volunteer staff).

 

Have fun.

 

Beavah

 

[ScoutNut]

BSA does not recommend COPE courses for Webelos Scouts.

[Eamonn]

I really don't know the right answer or if there is a right answer.

Have to admit that I'd have some concerns about the zip line and the age of the Scouts -But that could be me being an old mother hen.

Maybe to be on the safe side you might want to ask your SE or someone on the Council Risk Management Committee.

I kinda feel that the answer will be a no.

If it is you might want to make mention of the fact that 12 year olds were doing the course at the last National Jamboree.

There wasn't a zip line, but the Flying Squirrel was fairly high.

Ea.

[BelieveinScouts]

I feel your pain. I was just speaking to our DE about this recently. I am a Webelos II Leader. My boys are bored with the Cub Stuff. I want to plan more exciting things, but always seem to find my hands tied by the Guide to Safe Scouting for Cubs.

 

A lot of my parents have gotten together on their own and done things as well. They all went canoeing once. We also just happen to have a guy in our Pack that goes Caving. He invited my Webelos on a trip. He was taking his 6 year old son too, so I was pretty sure it would be ok. I had to explain to him and my parents that this is not allowed for Cubs under the Guide to Safe Scouting guidelines. If they did it, it would have to be a non-scout function, with no one to sue if their sons got hurt. They all really wanted to go and agreed that they were going at their own risk. I even had them sign a home made waiver.

 

Our Caving parent told everyone what equipment they would need, and brought along another experienced guide too. We all went and the boys had a blast. He even video taped it with a lipstick cam attached to his helmet and made all the boys souvenir DVD's. I don't regret going, but I also cautioned the parents that I didn't want to go too often because this is something they will do in Boy Scouts and I wanted my son to have it to look forward to.

 

This guy also said he can teach us how to repell, but I told him I think the boys need to hold off and have something to look forward to in Scouts. He's a great guy, very outdoorsy and is just trying to help. His son is a Tiger right now, but I told him that BSA will be thrilled to have him when his son crosses over. In fact, I told our local Troop about him and told them to contact him for help with outings already. He said he'd love to work with them, so hopefully that will work out.

 

That's the problem with Webelos. Trying to come up with activities to keep them interested, fit guidelines, and advance their skills. Oh yeah, and also are a lot of fun. I would love to hear ideas from other Webelos Leaders. Maybe I'm just not being creative enough.

[John-in-KC]

What Beavah said.

 

That said, remember to plan and execute your Tour Permit!

[WDL Mom]

Hi,

 

I emailed my DE and he approved the activity, including the zip line and the team building activities.

 

I would like to take the boys to a nearby cave as well. It is very tame as far as caves go. It is highly traveled, pretty much novice level. There might be a couple of squeezes but that is pretty much it. Haven't run that one by the DE yet...

 

 

Other things I am planning for next year...

 

For Readyman:

 

I have one parent that is a nurse and another who is a former EMT. I have access to CPR dummies, so we will do a session on rescue breathing and CPR. I would also like to do a scenario session where the Webelos "encounter" various victims and have to provide the needed assistance. Complete with using the bandages and fake blood.

 

Still planning on attending Webelos Woods and other Council events. Though I am going to try and shift the decision making/planning to the boys.