Den Leader in charge of scout that is not his son at a family camp-out.

[ndnqueen]

Okay--I know it is a wierd title. I think have heard this somewhere before. I have heard that if you are the den leader you cannot be solely responsible for any other scout beside your own child, because you are incharge of your den. Is this correct? Did I learn this or read this somewhere over the past 7 years or did I dream it up? It is the way I have run both my dens. It has worked great for me. haha. Anyway, something has come up. A family campout actually and someone wants to send their son from a lower rank with a higher rank leader to watch him for the weekend. I am sure there isn't an issue with two boys sharing a tent with different ranks--other then I am uncomfortable with it, but that is just me. I just can't find the leader confirmation written anywhere. Did I dream it?????

 

Any help or input would be great.

 

YIS,

 

Samantha

 

 

[anarchist]

no offense, but you post is rather unclear..but for what it is worth...G2SS says:

 

"Family Camping

 

Family camping: an outdoor camping experience, other than resident camping, that involves Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, or Venturing program elements in overnight settings with two or more family members, including at least one BSA member of that family. Parents are responsible for the supervision of their children, and Youth Protection guidelines apply.

 

Recreational family camping

Recreational family camping: when Scouting families camp as a family unit outside of an organized program. It is a nonstructured camping experience, but is conducted within a Scouting framework on local council-owned or -managed property. Local councils may have family camping grounds available for rental at reasonable rates. Other resources may include equipment, information, and training.

 

Cub Scout Overnight Opportunities

Cub Scouts may experience overnight activities in venues other than accredited resident camping. There are two categories of Cub Scout overnighters:

 

Council-Organized Family Camp

Council-organized family camps are overnight events involving more than one pack. The local council provides all of the elements of the outdoor experience, such as staffing, food service, housing, and program. These are often referred to as Parent/Pal or Adventure weekends. Council-organized family camps should be conducted by trained leaders at sites approved by the local council. In most cases, the youth member will be under the supervision of a parent or guardian. In all cases, each youth participant is responsible to a specific adult.

 

Overnight activities involving more than one pack must be approved by the council. Council-organized family camps must be conducted in accordance with established standards as given in National Standards for Council-Organized Family Camping, No. 13-408.

 

Pack Overnighters

These are pack-organized overnight events involving more than one family from a single pack, focused on age-appropriate Cub Scout activities and conducted at council-approved locations (councils use Pack Overnighter Site Approval Form, No. 13-508). If nonmembers (siblings) participate, the event must be structured accordingly to accommodate them. BSA health and safety and youth protection guidelines apply. In most cases, each youth member will be under the supervision of a parent or guardian. In all cases, each youth participant is responsible to a specific adult.

 

At least one adult on a pack overnighter must have completed Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation (BALOO, No. 34162) to properly understand the importance of program intent, youth protection guidelines, health and safety, site selection, age-appropriate activities, and sufficient adult participation. Permits for campouts shall be issued locally. Packs use Local Tour Permit Application, No. 34426.

 

....but I do not really understand what the question was... generally speaking "cubs" must have a parent or appointed guardian who is not a pack leader and who agrees to take responciblity for that child...Den leaders do not "care" for other peoples kids they have their sons and the den to watch after...another "civilian" parent may take that position but not pack /den leaders...

good luck

Anarchist

[ScoutNut]

While it might make sense, & be the prefered way to handle supervision for Cubs without family present, it is NOT a BSA REQUIREMENT.

 

If you look thru what anarchist posted, you will see that the rule is - "In all cases, each youth participant is responsible to a specific adult."

 

Nowhere, in any BSA publication, does it state that the "specific adult" must not be a Pack leader.

 

In my opinion, in such cases a more important rule, that IS spelled out in the Youth Protection portion of the "Guide to Safe Scouting" is - "When camping, no youth is permitted to sleep in the tent of an adult other than his own parent or guardian."

 

Also, there is no BSA rule that states boys sharing a tent must be in the same rank. Just that there can not be any adults (this includes 18 year old Boy Scouts who are no longer considered youth).

 

 

[Jeffrey H]

ndnqueen,

 

Read Guide to Safe Scouting under Camping. An online version can be read at www.scouting.org or get a copy from your Cubmaster. Your questions about Cub camping will be answered.

 

From what you stated, it appears there were no violations at your Pack Campout.

 

No offense intended, but after 7 years (as you stated) you should be familiar with camping rules for Cubs as stated in the Guide to Safe Scouting. In Scouting, it's very easy for made-up rules to spread around because of tradition and no one questions it.

 

--Jeff

[nldscout]

We have a rule in our council, the leader can not be the responible adult for another child. They need to concentrate on the group.

 

[ndnqueen]

Thanks to all that responded. I had all those wonderful answers you all gave me already. I just thought I might have missed something somewhere. It must have been a made-up Pack rule, that got passed down. Our Pack is large and our dens usually run 8-10 boys in size. It is a safety back-up for the leaders, so we can make sure the parents aren't using us as a baby sitting service. This way we have to have help. Besides our two deep... However, if we do not have anything in writing we cannot reinforce it.

 

Thanks for everyones help--I just hope it all works out okay.

 

Samantha

[ScoutNut]

Cub Scouting is a family program. Even when the entire family is not involved in a den or Pack outing, at LEAST 1 parent SHOULD accompany their son on the outing.

 

We make that very clear upfront in our Pack. All event sign up sheets ask for the name of the Scout & all family members attending. If it is an outing where there should be 1-on-1 supervision, the sign up sheets state that a Scout MUST sign up with a parent/guardian.

 

Lone Cubs are the extreme exception - not the rule. If an extraordinary circumstance comes up, & a parent can not attend an outing, but wants to send their son, they will first get an OK from the Den Leader (or which ever Pack leader is in charge of the outing) & then they will make their own arrangements with the family of one of their son's Scout buddies. It is NEVER automatically assumed that the den leaders are in charge of lone boys.