Day Hike - Definition

[dave.424]

I have a Web II who has about everything he needs for Arrow of Light, except for req. 5 (Webelos overnight campout or day hike). He has gone on one overnight campout with the den that he used for Outdoorsman. We bridge in 1 week, so I know we won't be camping.

 

However, I have offered to schedule a day hike for this Saturday if this particular boy will participate. I put out a general message to the den a month or more ago saying that some of the boys could really use one, but I'd only schedule if it I got some committments to participate (or at least replies of interest). I got only one reply from a parent that let me know his son would not be able to make it. I received NO other replies, so didn't schedule the hike.

 

My main question is what exactly constitutes a day hike? I've assumed it is more than "any hike during the day". A 3 mile hike is one of the options for Outdoorsman. Based on that, I have generally thought that a day hike should be longer, especially since it would serve as a substitute for an overnight campout. Something you start in the morning, break for lunch and finish in the afternoon. Probaly 6+ miles. Am I on track? I don't want to deny him the AoL because I am being to strict in my interpretation nor award it to him if he has not properly completed all of the requirements.

 

Something else, I have not really seriously considered, but figured I'd ask for feedback on. You can not use the same overnight campout for both Outdoorsman and AoL. However, if you had a one night camping trip one week and another the next week it would meet both requirements. What about a 2 night camping trip? Could that be considered 2 overnight campouts?

 

As I said, I'm not trying to have him skirt the requirements, but neither do I want to deny him because I am interpreting the requirements too narrowly.

 

Half my den has already earned AoL, a few others are just not close, but this one boy is just so close that I want to make sure I do the right thing.

 

Comments? Thanks.

 

[WDL Mom]

Hi,

 

For a day hike, I would try to keep it in the 2-3 mile range as suggested in the Outdoorsman pin. Trying to get some boys this age to hike 6+ miles would be like pulling teeth.

 

I agree that it needs to be more than just a 3 mile walk. Some things you could discuss during the hike might include:

 

Buddy system

What to do when lost.

Map and Compass

10 Essentials

Animal or plant identification

Leave No Trace

Pack a sack lunch or cook on the hike.

 

Choose a couple that are doable and fun!

Good Luck!

[dave.424]

Oh, I definitely would make it more than just a walk. We'd likely include some of the items you listed.

 

Here is another though. We covered 2 miles (in snow and ice) for our Klondike Derby this year. If a 'DH' could be in the 2-3 mile range, would you consider applying that toward AoL?

[packsaddle]

Back when I was a CM and DL I took the boys and parents on hikes to waterfalls, hike to clean up lake shores, hikes up to a mountaintop. I think the distance is less important than the shared experiences on the way, the things we do to interact and learn from each other...kind of like life...which is exactly the way I view every trek I take.

[scottteng]

http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/rapids/8428/historicalseries.html

 

When I was a WDL we did a historical hike through downtown of a town near us. A lot of the kids liked it and had a good time but there was one kid who was just totally fascinated by the history and hung on the guide's every word for the entire hike. This was one kid I had almost despaired of reaching he did not like camping type stuff but history turned him on. Above is the Florida historical hike site other states must have something similar.

[LongHaul]

david.self,

You asked if a 2 night overnighter could be counted as two separate events and if the walking involved with the Klondike Derby could be considered a hike. My reply is a question to you "If you received a 'yes' answer to either of the above questions and awarded the AOL would the scout feel he had earned it or gotten it by default?" What does the scout feel about 2 nights being counted separate or the Klondike being a duel event? We don't want a scout disappointed but we also don't want to validate "getting by". Why didnt this scout camp more than once or take a hike in the 20 months of the Webelos Program? Did he choose not to attend or were the options not available to him?

LongHaul

 

[Gonzo1]

David,

Welcome.

 

Another option is that he can cross over later, say next month and get a quality hike. It doesn't have to be forced or "gotten by default"

 

 

[dave.424]

I talked to the scout and his mother and we are going on a 3 or so mile hike on Saturday. This was my preference from the begining. I just wanted to confirm that I was on the right track in not seriously considering spitting a single two night camping trip into two requirements or counting the two miles we covered during the KD.

 

Our pack does two family camping trips a year, we have participated in Webelos-O-Ree both years and even joined one troop on a cabin camping trip in January. One weakness is that we've really only done one hike that we worked into Outdoorsman and Forester.

 

My son and the one boy that has been with him since Tigers have pretty much gone on every camping trip the pack has offered.We only have one boy that has specifically seemed not to enjoy camping too much. I'd have to say that the reason some of our boys have not gone on as many trips as they could have has been because of parents not making the effort or time to take them. Since I can not be directly responsible for anyone but my own son, all I can do is make them aware of the trips and encourage them to participate. Lack of response from parents has been my biggest frustration as a den leader.

 

I really wish I'd taken advantage of this forum earlier. It's great to get a variety of new persectives.

[packsaddle]

David, regarding something you wrote in the last paragraph, I have often noted and I think others will agree...adults are far more difficult to work with than the boys are. As long as you're in a leadership role, might as well get used to it because at times you'll work with a great group of parents that volunteer for everything. At other times you almost think they're like recalcitrant children.

[Stosh]

One might wish to check with the scout troops in the area. They do many things that would fulfill the Webelos requirement for AOL. For example, we maintain woodduck houses that need to be periodically checked and would require a "hike" of about 5 miles to get around to them all. The cubs could tag along and learn something. There are advancement requirements for the scouts as well, that would require hiking. All your Webelos leaders need to tap into these scout resources right away and make use of them. When I was WDL, I made quite a bit of contact with the troop rather than trying to reinvent the wheel for each of my advancements.

 

Otherwise a fun day of hiking, stop and make hobo dinners at lunch and hike on home. It's supposed to be a get off the sofa, out of the house, blow some stink off, kind of event where the boys go and do something fun outside.

[LongHaul]

Actually by the time the boy gets to the point that he is working on his AOL he is supposed to be doing these things with his Den. Req. #5 says "Participate in a Webelos overnight campout or day hike." The qualifier "Webelos should apply to the overnight and the day hike. This does not mean "while a Webelos Scout", it means with your Webelos Den and/or other Webelos Scouts.

LongHaul

 

[dave.424]

LH, unfortunately this forum doesn't allow you to reply to specific messages within a topic, so I'm not sure if you are refering to something I said or jblake47's comments about participating in something with a troop.

 

If the latter, I'd think that if his Webelos den is accompanying a troop on an activity, he's still doing it with his den. No?

 

If the former, the hike we have planned will be a den hike and at least a few other boys will be along.

 

I also thought you could be replying to Gonzo1's idea of him transitioning later. That would pretty much preclude the requirement from being done witht he den.

 

If I've managed three strikes, please let me know if you were commenting on something else I may have said.

[LongHaul]

david.self,

That's why I like to name names but am trying to avoid that in an experiment in creating less hostility among forum members.

My reference to doing things with the den was a general statement to address trying to accomodate a single boy, which is often the case. Accompanying a scout troop while said troop makes the rounds of it's woodduck houses is a great event and I would gladly sign off req.#4 after a boy attended such an event. As for Gonzo1's suggestion, the boy could accompany the "other" Webelos Den in his pack, the first year guys. Using the woodduck event as a hike seems like we are reaching to find a way to let this boy "get" the badge. When my troop goes to summer camp our site is about 1/3 of a mile from the dinning hall. About 1/2 mile from the water front, 1 mile from the shooting range with all the other areas in between. During the course of the day every boy will "hike" 5 to 10 miles depending on what activities he is doing that day. Three meals and a dip in the lake is 5 miles alone. I don't sign off five mile hikes every night. I may be to strict in interpretation here but a day hike to me is a walk with a purpose of it's own, a hike that wouldn't have otherwise been taken.

 

LongHaul

 

One thing that is often difficult is not taking out our frustration with the parents on the boy. "You had several opportunities to complete this requirement and you didn't do it." Actually the boy may not have had several opportunities because his parents didn't make those outings available to the scout by being willing to accompany him. We don't always know if the parent wasn't interested or the boy wasn't interested. Your willingness to set up this late hike so this boy can achieve his AOL says you care.

 

[dave.424]

Thanks, LH.

 

At one point, I thought that it would be a relief to no longer have to try to deal with certain non-responsive parents once the boys had made the transition to a troop. It is frustrating when the boys suffer because of a lack of support at home. Last night was our final den meeting and it really was sort of sad. No matter the occassional frustrations, I will definitely miss being a den leader.

 

I hope to be able to keep up with the ones not going to the troop my son is joining.

 

(Hmm...It's occuring to me that perhaps I should have selected a more ambiguous username.)

[packsaddle]

I have said it many times, I really miss the cubs.