What would you do? (PWD related)

[dragonden]

What would you do if this were your den/pack.

 

Cub Scout was not present at weigh-in for PWD. When called by denleader the parent replied they hadn't had time to make a car, they'd just use last year's car. Denleader reminded the parent that district rules require that the car have not been raced in a previous year. Parent's reply was "whatever." PWD night arrives and it is obviously the same car as lst year but with new paint (verified by pack pictures from previous year's PWD). Parent denies it. YOU are the leader who must send list to District 'certifying' this year's eligable scouts from your pack and that they have followed the rules to the best of your knowledge... What would you do?

[ScoutNut]

Did you remind the parent that they told you they were going to use last years car? How unique was the car design? Could the parent be telling the truth?

 

These questions/issues should have been settled the night of the PWD. At weigh-in on PWD night you should have talked to the family & decided if you believed this parent or not. If you did not then you should have stated plainly that due to XYZ evidence, their son would be able to run in the Pack PWD, but would not be eligible for the District PWD.

 

At this point it is to late & you really have no choice but to believe the family.

 

[Lisabob]

You mean, after I got over the urge to throttle the parent? (Grr.) I might try having a quiet conversation with the parent about how the pinewood is supposed to be a great opportunity for the boys to do something special together with their parent - how it isn't about winning and it sure isn't about the parent. Then ask if the boy would like to submit his car for this year's race as an "unofficial" entry (meaning, it isn't going to be recognized and it isn't going to the district no matter how great it is, but he can still join in the fun of the race). This might not work and I'm not always known as the most diplomatic sort; it probably depends a lot on your delivery style and the parent in question's attitude.

 

Then down the road a little: make extra-double-triple sure that your pack is providing chances for boys whose parents aren't handy or don't have tools or whatever, to work on their cars. A couple of people on this forum have talked about having a den-wide or even pack-wide "pit night" where they bring in tools and offer any help that a parent could want. This reduces the temptation for parents to cheat out of desperation and provides an opportunity for those who maybe really don't have time (or wouldn't independently make time) to do this at home.

 

What a shame that sometimes parents themselves are the worst role models for their children though.

[Eagledad]

>>What a shame that sometimes parents themselves are the worst role models for their children though.

[scoutldr]

The easiest way to avoid these situations is to avoid making rules that don't make sense. Who cares when the car was made? Do you also disqualify cars that are purchased on eBay? I was a CM and DL for 6 years. THere were many instances when a Cub would bring his book in with all kinds of things signed off by "Akela"...the Cub had no idea he had done all those things. It's not our job to second guess the motives of parents in such matters. All we can do is make it clear to the scout and parents what the expectations are and then trust that they understand.

 

I had a wake up call two weeks ago...and I'm realizing that some things in life just aren't worth worrying about. This would be one of them.

[SSScout]

'Course we aren't at the "A Scout is trustworthy stage, yet, or are we? If the Cub and his parent(s) say "this is my entry", then this is the entry. Cars can be reworked. (even repainted).

 

 

Pack PWD night... final weigh in... Cub brings a friend to the meet...

Friend does not have a car... My son takes his last years car off the display rack, removes the "cert" sticker off the bottom and hands it to the friend...Friend 'races' the last year car under his name in the "OP" class ("Other People", after "Cub Official", and "Adult" classes)... Lots of excitment... New Cub...

 

 

YiS KiSMiF

[Jeffrey H]

Our Pack allows cars from previous years to race "unofficially". Their car will be timed with the rest but it will not qualify for any winning trophy. That said, we do not do any test to see if the boy is running the same car as last year. It's a matter of Scout's Honor.

 

If the parent denies it was last year's car, then go with that. There is no way you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he is running last year's car based on a picture. There are no rules (that I'm aware of) that prohibit a scout from building a new car using the same design from the previous year. If the parent and scout are lying, let it be on their conscience (hopefully they have one).

 

As Lisabob mentioned earlier, dedicate a den meeting or two for a "PWD Workshop" for those that don't have the tools, time, or skill to build a car.

[dragonden]

Thanks to all who've replied... You're pretty much winding up where my coleaders and myself have; it's too late now. Our district is 'strict' on the rules, so we try to follow their lead so that none of the cubs who advance to district are disqualified when they get there.

 

It's unfortunate, but not surprising, that this is our pack's "THAT family" --- you know, the one that EVERYONE who's ever been involved with scouting has encountered... the ones that never seem to get it... the one who has told us several times that it doesn't matter what they did so long as they can't get caught. *pause to bang my head on the wall* We'll look ahead to try to plan better for next year... and hope the examples set by the families who are trying to live up to the ideals sinks in... eventually!

 

happy scouting to all!

 

DD(This message has been edited by dragonden)

[epalmer84]

Some psych major could get a great thesis by studying the psychological interactions of the Pinewood Derby.

 

That little car is just a chunk of wood, some nails and some tires, but look at the emotional involvement. The PD is supposed to be about having fun and about kids working with their parents.

 

I understand why we have the rules- if we didn't level the playing field we would have all sorts of wild and wonderful stuff as it turned into who has the most money has the best car. It is just too bad that we have to focus on the methods so much that we loose track of the goals.

 

Ed

[eghiglie]

 

The Cub Scout Oath and Law of the Pack are not anywhere near as specific as the Scout Oath and Scout Law.

 

This year we had a kid who for some reason didn't get one of the BSA kits from the Pack at the Holiday Party. The Den Leader told the parents to get the PineCar kit at Michaels, and gave him the money out of Den Dues to pay for it.

 

The parents bought the Pinecar kit and built it.

 

They show up at the race with the car, its entered and passes inspection somehow. Someone more alert notices the wheels and axles after inspection and raises the issue to the head race official. The race official is a close friend of the family. The race official says to let it race as "they didn't know".

 

The car loses.

 

 

[gwd-scouter]

Ah, so many fond(?) memories of running pwd derby. From the very first race with my then 1st grade son and a boy-made car that only made it halfway down the track until it stopped dead, to watching that now 20 year old son emcee the District race with his 13 year old brother as pit crew, I have seen so many rules added to the Pwd derby that it seems to have sucked all the fun out of the event.

 

Our District rules now number close to two pages. Check-in and weigh-in was an elaborate time consuming process, truly an inspection. I can attest that some if not most of those rules were added as a result of some parent complaining about an "illegal" car.

 

This year I watched part of our District event. I stood by and watched the Dads carry in their son's car. I watched the Dads weigh and tweak the car until entering it for final inspection. Unless those Scouts were gifted in woodworking, I didn't see any cars that looked boy-made among the 90 or so entries.

 

Then the races. No cheering, no fun. Boys put their cars at the top of the track. They weren't even allowed time to go down to the end of the track to cheer on their car. Adult at the top started the cars - my younger son as pit crew picked them up and brought them back to the pit area. Electronic timers and computers calculated the winners. The crowd paid little attention until their boy's name appeared on the screen that it was their turn to race.

 

Trophies and medals are quickly forgotten and put away in a drawer somewhere. We can create all the rules we want to make the races fair. There will always be those parents who want their boy to win at all costs. They will build their son's car rather than share in the experience of working together. They will complain if their "son's" car doesnt win. But, my experience has been that the boys just want to watch their car run down the track.

 

 

[Lisabob]

GWD I think you've got to the heart of it - they just want to see their car go down the track. Being fast is fun too but at the end of the day it isn't the biggest thing. You know what really gets me is when the parents don't want the boys to play with their cars after the race! C'mon, they're boys with toy cars, of course they're going to "drive" them around the floor.

 

Can I tell you this one though? My son and my husband made cars together every year that my son was a cub and they were never fancy, but they were joint endeavors and my son remains proud of his cars, which are still all displayed in his room. Well one dad with boys in the same den as my son always made a big deal about his sons' (?) cars and how high tech and engineered they were. Yeah, this guy also owns every power tool on earth and spent countless hours - as he himself proclaimed - crafting the cars. He was really, really into it. His sons' cars usually did very well and they went to district almost every year. Except in his webelos one year, my own son's entry - a rather blocky thing - beat these adult-made "super cars" and had the fastest time in the pack that year. He won the district race too, much to everyone's surprise. It was the year the third Lord of the Rings movie came out and my son had put Sauron's eye on the car - he insisted that the paint job is what made it so fast!

 

The following year, my son entered his prized car in the pack's open class upon a direct challenge from this dad that nobody could beat HIS car. The guy spent a YEAR working on his car. My son's little home made model, pulled off the shelf from the previous year, beat the pants off him and everyone else in the open race that year.

 

I know it's wrong but I'm still smiling about that.

[eghiglie]

 

My son was a cub for 4 years (wolf to webelos), we made all 4 cars together. He designed the body style, some cutting, sanded and painted them. He also did all the wheel work. Balancing the cars though was a joint effort.

 

He also managed to earn 1 medal and 3 thropies over the years. 1st Place for the pack one year, 1 place in district for another.

 

As a surprise to him I made a shadow box that displays the cars on the walls. The cars were always falling off the shelf.

 

I often wonder why Troops don't do PWD, I know my son is going to miss this part of cubs.

 

 

 

 

 

[OneHour]

Who says that troop cannot participate in PWD? Our pack invites the local troops to submit their entries for the Open Race. In return, the troop provides the service hours to help run the derby! It's a great way to let the Troop/Pack interact and build that relationship.

 

1Hour

[gwd-scouter]

It's funny, but as we were coming home from the District PWD, my younger son who was helping out asked me why the Boy Scouts don't do PWD derby. He then asked if the other guys liked the idea, could we do a derby in our Troop.

 

Why not? Sounds like fun. Probably could tie the making of the cars into woodcarving merit badge eh?